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-- Topica Digest --
Re: Anti-vaccine town struck by measles epidemic (repeat from
March)
By willow.firesong creative-interweb.com
Re: Supreme Court rules vouchers can be used for religious schools
By Tjgarr859 aol.com
Re: Supreme Court rules vouchers can be used for religious schools
By Diana.Winters worldnet.att.net
San Francisco State University - Class Outline
By dan dandugan.com
San Francisco State University (repeat from 2/10/02 for review)
By dan dandugan.com
San Francisco State University - response to letter 2/10/02
By dan dandugan.com
San Francisco State University - rebuttal to response
By dan dandugan.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 21:40:06 +0930
From: Willow Firesong (Willow.Firesong creative-interweb.com)
Subject: Re: Anti-vaccine town struck by measles epidemic (repeat from
March)
At 26-06-02 09:12 PM Wednesday, Dan Dugan wrote:
)Helmut Weiss, head of the state Health Office in Coburg, blamed the
)epidemic on "a widespread belief in anthropology" among Coburg
)residents. "There are some strong-willed homoeopathic doctors in the
)town who argue against vaccination," Dr Weiss said.
)
)"Their stronghold is the Waldorf School, which actively encourages
)people not to have their children vaccinated. Now we have an
)epidemic."
)
)The Waldorf School is a holistic teaching centre based on the methods
)of the late Dr Rudolf Steiner and is one of several in Germany that
)promotes alternative medicine.
Over and over again we see this confusion - where Anthroposophy is even
mentioned in connection with Waldorf, people get it wrong and think they're
talking about the recognized social science of anthropology. Where
anthroposophical medicine is mentioned at all, it is equated (by most of
both the proponents and the critics) with any of a variety of other points
on the spectrum of what is still called alternative medicine, whether it is
the use of natural sources of recognized medicinals (such as the use of
plant-sourced estrogens in treating the symptoms of menopause), or the
otherwise unfounded "treatments" of a self-proclaimed clairvoyant who
claims a personal relationship with crystals or other minerals. Or, it
will get lumped in with other practises under whose social acceptance the
practicioners appear to like to take refuge, such as homeopathy (which is
NOT itself anthroposophical in nature, whatever other issues anyone may
have with it) - ironically enough, itself related in principle to the
concept of vaccination.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 20:42:10 EDT
From: Tjgarr859 aol.com
Subject: Re: Supreme Court rules vouchers can be used for religious schools
Tom
I'm not so gloomy over the ruling (I'm not at all amazed at it either). If
Catholic, Jewish, Hindu, etc. schools get funds, I think this will almost
draw Waldorf out in the open.
If more "Main Stream" alternate schools are made available to parents who are
down on public schools, this will almost certainly reduce enrollment at
Waldorf. (Or at least I hope).
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 21:46:25 -0400
From: "Diana Winters" (diana.winters worldnet.att.net)
Subject: Re: Supreme Court rules vouchers can be used for religious schools
Tom wrote:
)I'm not so gloomy over the ruling (I'm not at all amazed at it either). If
)Catholic, Jewish, Hindu, etc. schools get funds, I think this will almost
)draw Waldorf out in the open.
)If more "Main Stream" alternate schools are made available to parents who
are
)down on public schools, this will almost certainly reduce enrollment at
)Waldorf. (Or at least I hope).
I think you're right, and I think the argument is actually just getting
started. It may benefit Waldorf in the short run. Perhaps it is an
experiment that has to be tried before we see why we had a prohibition
against federal funding of religious schools in the first place. There are
bound to be some truly chaotic situations developing out of this. And there
is still plenty of opposition at the state level. It violates many state
constitutions.
And yes, it will certainly be interesting to see how differently Waldorf may
present itself if there is no longer any need to pretend that Waldorf
education is *not* religious. Perhaps they will get honest, and we will get
them on record. Then in another decade, when we come to our senses in the US
about why that wall of separation between church and state was such a good
idea, it will be very difficult for them to go back to pretending that they
weren't religious after all . . .
Diana
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 22:13:22 -0700
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: San Francisco State University - Class Outline
Class Outline - Anthroposophical Healing Studies -HH-650
Session 01: Historical overview of the initiation and development of
Anthroposophical Medicine. Attention will be paid to the need for new
paradigms in medicine at the beginning of the 20th century and how
Rudolf Steiner, on request of many physicians, contributed
significantly to new concepts in medicine. An overview will be given
of the spread of Anthroposophical hospitals and health centers
throughout the world. Several hospital buildings are built according
to Anthroposophical concepts about architecture. Attention will be
given to these principles.
Session 02: Three-fold man: part I. One of the corner-stones of the
Anthroposophical world conception is the recognition that the human
being is organized and structured according to certain principles,
like a three-foldness. Quite detailed, the three systems will be
discussed: the Nerve-Sense System, the Rhythmical System and the
Metabolic-Limb System.
Session 03: Three-fold man: part II. A second session is necessary to
lay the foundation of three-foldness, which is necessary to develop
the three-foldness of the soul (mind). In this session, the
relationship of the human being to the plant kingdom and the animal
kingdom will be discussed and their implications for therapy.
Session 04: Three-fold man: part III. In this session, the
three-foldness of the functioning of the human soul (mind) will be
discussed: Thinking, Feeling, and Willing. With these three
qualities, three different stages of consciousness are connected:
being awake, dreaming, and being asleep. Practical exercises will be
done to explore these concepts.
Session 05: Compare Anthroposophical Medicine with other medical
traditions, including Traditional Chinese Medicine, Homeopathy,
Aryuvedic medicine and allopathic medicine
Session 06: Four-fold man: part I and II. In this first session on
the four-foldness of man will be discussed. How the human being is
related to the four elements fire, air, water and earth, and how
these four elements are the bases for the four bodies of man: his
physical, etheric, and astral body and his ego-organization. An
understanding of how consciousness and self-consciousness comes into
existence is elaborated out of the understanding of four-fold man.
Attention will be paid to the phenomenon of sleep and being awake; of
getting tired during the day and regaining strength and energy during
sleep at night.
Session 07: The basic understanding of health and disease is
developed. The phenomenon of inflammation and sclerosis is explained
and how the process of health and healing can be understood as a
mediating process of the Rhythmic System.
Session 08: Medical botany and applications. Potentizing substances
from the animal kingdom, the plant kingdom and the mineral kingdom
will be explained and several indications for various illnesses will
be given. Examples like the honeybee, the ant, arnica, belladonna,
quartz, etc., will be given and explained.
Session 09: An introduction to the Anthroposophical understanding of
karma and reincarnation will be elaborated. Karma is the foundation
of health and disease. Karma and reincarnation are basic principles
for an understanding of the human biography.
Session 10: The principles of the human biography will be discussed.
The foundation of an understanding of the characteristics of a
biography out of the phenomenon of movement and speech will be given.
The various rhythms, like the septennials, the moon knots, the
three-year rhythm, will be introduced. Also, examples of the
mirroring of (traumatic) events in childhood in later adult life will
be shown.
Session 11: The principles of the Waldorf Education will be
discussed. Two Waldorf School Teachers will elaborate on the
curriculum, and gave many examples out of their daily work. In this
session, the therapeutic and preventive effects of Waldorf Education
will be mentioned.
Session 12: The basis of Anthroposophical methods for diagnosis and
therapy will be given. Out of the understanding of the concepts of
three-fold, four-fold and two-fold man, the way of making a sensible
diagnosis and therapy becomes now evident. This session will include
various case histories and the applied therapies. Occasionally, there
is a life presentation of as patient. [sic]
Session 13: Clinical applications of Anthroposophical pharmacology.
Session 14: Clinical approach of Anthroposophical Speech formation
will also be experienced in a workshop-like setting and its practical
application will be discussed and exercised by an experienced
therapist. The history of the development of the therapeutic
application of speech will be discussed. The exercises are done
individually and in the group.
Session 15: The history, development and the principles of
bio-dynamic agriculture are discussed here by an experienced
bio-dynamic farmer. Through slides and data from studies, the effects
bio-dynamic agriculture has on the environment and on man will be
shown. A few of the typical bio-dynamic preparations will be
manufactured by the students during this session.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 22:13:45 -0700
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: San Francisco State University (repeat from 2/10/02 for review)
February 10, 2002
Robert A. Corrigan, President
San Francisco State University
1600 Holloway Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94132
Dear President Corrigan,
We are very concerned about your University hosting a course that not
only promotes an anti-scientific medical system, but also exposes
students to sophisticated recruitment by a cult-like religious sect.
HH650, "Anthroposophical Health Studies," is a two-weekend intensive
that began February 1, 2002. It is taught by Dr. Robert Gorter, whose
apparent qualifications belie his dedication to a system of
scientifically and ethically questionable medical activities.
"Anthroposophical Medicine" is wholly the creation of Anthroposophy.
No one outside Anthroposophy practices it, all publications come from
Anthroposophical presses, and Anthroposophical medical training is
supervised by the Medical Section of the Goetheanum in Dornach,
Switzerland, the headquarters of Anthroposophy.
Anthroposophy is an occultist religious sect founded by Rudolf
Steiner in 1912. Steiner had been the head of the German section of
Madame Blavatsky's Theosophy for ten years when he split off to form
his own group after a doctrinal dispute. It is a closed system,
depending on its own schools and publications, its jargon redefines
common terms, it clings to rejected knowledge, it is exclusive, and
secretive, revealing knowledge only to those with prerequisite
initiations.
In the context of medicine what is most telling is that Anthroposophy
has no critical dialogue. All writers defer to Steiner's revelations,
so doctrines have been elaborated but not changed since they were
laid down eighty years ago. As a result, Anthroposophy has many of
the characteristics of a cult, and none of the characteristics of
legitimate medical science, either scientifically or
holistically-based.
Anthroposophical Medicine, based on lectures Steiner gave to doctors
among his devotees, depends on a world-view that, despite public
claims to the contrary, is explicitly hostile to modern science.
Homeopathic remedies are used. Childhood immunizations are
discouraged. The germ theory of disease is denied. Human physiology
is organized into "the nerve-sense system," "the metabolic-muscular
system," and "the rhythmic system." Anthroposophical physicians
promote Iscador, Steiner's cancer treatment, despite their failure to
demonstrate its efficacy beyond their own anecdotal methods.
Steiner:
"To-day...it is only the most rigid materialists who hold fast to
this denial of a life-force or vital force. There are a number of
natural scientists and thinkers whom the facts of life have taught,
that something like a vital force or life-principle must be assumed.
Thus modern science, in its later developments, is in a certain sense
approaching what Anthroposophical Science has to say about the
life-body." [Steiner, Rudolf. Education of the Child in the Light of
Anthroposophy. (1909) Trans. George and Mary Adams. London: Rudolf
Steiner Press, 1975; pp. 9-10.]
Dr. Robert Gorter:
"As will be seen in this course, the laws that relate to inert matter
should only be applied to the physical aspects of living things. They
do not take into account their life, soul (mind) and spiritual
dimensions and, therefore, a further science is required to complete
the picture. This is the role of Spiritual Science, or Anthroposophy.
... Anthroposophy differs from this approach by regarding the
processes in the living as expressions of spiritual (imponderable)
principles. It is these higher principles underlying the physical
realm that have to be grasped before the life element (or life forces
or etheric forces) can be understood. If the activity involved in a
life process is studied, rather than an isolated "snapshot", a step
is taken towards understanding that element which organizes inert
matter into a complex living organism or body." [Gorter, Robert.
"Introduction to Anthroposophical Medicine."
http://www.medicine.co.za/newpage111.htm, downloaded 2/10/02.]
The teaching of Anthroposophical doctrine in a publicly-funded
university raises the question of violation of the Establishment
Clause of the Constitution. Besides this legal exposure, the
University should also consider the ethical question of whether, by
offering this course, the University is assuming a liability for
introducing students to a cult-like organization that conceals its
true beliefs and practices behind a sophisticated facade.
We would also like to point out an anomaly in the publicity for the
course. In the University's catalog, the description of HH650 makes
no mention of it being part of a larger program. On Dr. Gorter's web
site, however, the course is described as one component of a two-year
international masters degree program called "The Long Distance
Learning Program on Anthroposophical Health Studies." Is the
University being used for purposes of which it is not aware?
We suggest that the University should altogether avoid involvement
with Anthroposophy. If this is not possible, we request that at least
this program should include 1) a forum where students can hear
opposing views and 2) distribution of materials from anti-cult
organizations to make students aware of the nature of this particular
organization and of the recruiting tactics of cults in general.
PLANS has a library of Anthroposophical publications that is
available for research.
Sincerely yours,
Dan Dugan, Secretary,
for the Directors of PLANS, Inc.
copy to PLANS Board
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 23:18:23 -0700
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: San Francisco State University - response to letter 2/10/02
San Francisco State University
1600 Holloway Avenue, HSS 239
San Francisco, California 94132
Tel: 415/338-3326 Fax: 415/338-0586
College of Health and Human Services
April 23, 2002
Mr. Dan Dugan, Secretary,
for the Directors of PLANS, Inc.
290 Napolean [sic] Street San Francisco, CA 94124
Dear Mr. Dugan:
We very much appreciate the concerns expressed in your letter, since
they are the critical issues of academic knowledge and freedom. As
one of the many Western holistic health practices, Anthroposophical
Healing Studies (HH650) is a topic to explore. The purpose of this
class is to offer a background and overview of the principals [sic]
of Anthroposophical healing studies as described in the following
statement of objectives of this class.
It is my understanding that Anthroposophical Medicine was developed
by IT Wagman [sic] (1876-1943) and is based upon the work by Rudolf
Steiner. This integral form of medicine first developed in Europe, is
reported to now be making inroads in the United States.
Anthroposophical Medicine is an extension of regular, academically
based medicine which integrates allopathic medicine and considered by
some members of our faculty to be Anthroposophical world
conceptions.[sic] Anthroposophy is a way of conducting research and
enhancing one's abilities to penetrate the phenomenon of nature and
the human being. Within the European Union, there are twelve
Anthroposophical community hospitals, which are also teaching
hospitals for traditional medical schools, and hundreds of health
centers, where multidisciplinary teams work together for the care of
patients. The objectives of the course are to:
* Offer an introduction to Anthroposophical Medicine (history,
development and application);
* Offer an overview of the basic paradigms of Anthroposophical world
conceptions;
* Compare Anthroposophical Medicine with other medical traditions,
including Traditional Chinese Medicine, Homeopathy, Aryuvedic
medicine and allopathic medicine;
* Introduce other disciplines of applied Anthroposophical paradigms,
such as Waldorf School Education, therapeutic eurythmy, various forms
of art therapy, bio-dynamic agriculture and architecture;
* Enhance self-experience and self-healing practices. The contents of
the class sessions are described in the attached class outline.
Like any academic class taught at the Institute for Holistic Healing
Studies at San Francisco State University, students are encouraged to
question, challenge and offer alternative perspectives. At no time is
critique stifled. Instead, critical thinking and analysis are
encouraged, since that is part of learning and academic freedom. The
requirement of the class includes a 20 page or more research paper on
topics in Anthroposophical Medicine.
This very broad paper can include researching, comparing, and
analyzing Anthroposophical concepts with other systems. At no time is
a critical analysis discouraged.
At no time are students asked to join or participate in any
Anthroposophical activities outside the class. If this were the case,
the class would not be offered. In addition, the class is not a
required course; it is an elective class and students have the option
to enroll or not enroll. Moreover, any student who fulfills the
University requirements may enroll and, as such, also has the
opportunity to withdraw from the class. This is no different from any
of the other classes that may cover possible controversial topics.
For example, classes that explore Buddhist philosophy or Judaic
studies do not require or demand becoming a member of a specific
religious organization.
In regards to the issue that the class is listed as part of a larger
post-graduate training program, any organization can request that
people take certain classes in universities as part of their program.
This does not imply sponsorship of that program.
Again, we thank you for your detailed letter as it brings to the
forefront the important questions of academic freedom and
interdisciplinary and critical thinking.
Respectfully,
Don Zingale, Dean
College of Health and Human Services
CC:
Thomas J. La Belle, Provost and Vice President for Academic Affairs
Mary Beth Love, Chair, Health Education Department
Erik Peper, Director, Holistic Health Studies Institute
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 00:04:02 -0700
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: San Francisco State University - rebuttal to response
Don Zingale, Dean
College of Health and Human Services
San Francisco State University
1600 Holloway Avenue, HSS 239
San Francisco, California 94132
June 30, 2002
Dear Mr. Zingale:
Thank you for your thoughtful reply of April 23, 2002, to my letter
of February 10. I am pleased to have a dialogue with you about this
issue. In your letter, you make statements that you cannot support;
they are re-statements of Anthroposophical propaganda that you
apparently have taken at face value. For example, you wrote:
"Anthroposophical Medicine is an extension of regular, academically
based medicine which integrates allopathic medicine and considered by
some members of our faculty to be Anthroposophical world conceptions."
It is true that Anthroposophical physicians obtain regular medical
degrees before studying Steiner's medicine. Beyond that, it is false
to say that it is "an extension" of evidence-based medicine, or that
it "integrates" evidence-based medicine with the Anthroposophical
world-view. Many of the tenets of Anthroposophical medicine are
diametrically opposed to medical science. One must choose one or the
other. Anthroposophy teaches, for example, that the heart doesn't
pump blood (blood moves itself), and that there is no such thing as
motor nerves.
You also wrote: "Anthroposophy is a way of conducting research and
enhancing one's abilities to penetrate the phenomenon of nature and
the human being."
This is a self-serving definition from inside the Steiner cult. An
objective view characterizes it quite differently:
"The Christian and occultist movement associated with Rudolf Steiner
(1861-1925) stressing the cultivation of spiritual nature and the way
to gain spiritual awareness of a higher world." [Oxford Dictionary of
Philosophy, 1994, p.19]
A university is a place where objective views should be taught. You
are kidding yourself by accepting Anthroposophical propaganda;
Anthroposophy has a 90-year history of deceit and deception. The
University compromises its values by allowing Anthroposophists to
indoctrinate students without taking care that, at least, opposing
views are also presented.
You stated that one of the objectives of the course is to: "Enhance
self-experience and self-healing practices." These aren't activities
of an objective survey; they describe the exercises of believers. In
the same vein, the Class Outline includes (Session 09): "Karma is the
foundation of health and disease. Karma and reincarnation are basic
principles for an understanding of the human biography." This is
religious doctrine stated as fact.
You wrote: "Like any academic class taught at the Institute for
Holistic Healing Studies at San Francisco State University, students
are encouraged to question, challenge and offer alternative
perspectives. At no time is critique stifled. Instead, critical
thinking and analysis are encouraged, since that is part of learning
and academic freedom."
Anthroposophy promulgates a conglomeration of absurd doctrines based
on the belief that Rudolf Steiner was able to do research in the
"spiritual world." It is unable to stand up to critical scrutiny as
anything but a religious belief system. It is customary in
Anthroposophical activities to suppress dissent and criticism. I
subscribe to many Anthroposophical periodicals, and it is extremely
rare that anyone even suggests that something Steiner said might be
wrong. How can you know that the Anthroposophists teaching your
students behave any differently?
You also wrote: "At no time are students asked to join or participate
in any Anthroposophical activities outside the class. If this were
the case, the class would not be offered."
How do you know that?
You continued: "In addition, the class is not a required course; it
is an elective class and students have the option to enroll or not
enroll. Moreover, any student who fulfills the University
requirements may enroll and, as such, also has the opportunity to
withdraw from the class. This is no different from any of the other
classes that may cover possible controversial topics. For example,
classes that explore Buddhist philosophy or Judaic studies do not
require or demand becoming a member of a specific religious
organization."
None of these points relieves the University from its legal
obligations to present controversial topics objectively, and to avoid
religious indoctrination. The University's courses on Buddhism, for
example, are in the philosophy department where they belong, and
include a rich survey of Buddhist thought (see
http://online.sfsu.edu/~rone/Buddhism/Buddhism.html). The minor in
Jewish Studies gives as its purpose "to acquaint the student with the
history, culture, contributions, and religion of the Jewish people as
seen through the eyes of modern academic disciplines..." (see
http://www.sfsu.edu/~jewish/). These are objective approaches. There
is nothing about Anthroposophy at your school except for this course,
taught by Anthroposophists and declaring Anthroposophical doctrine as
fact. This violates the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment
and the integrity of the University.
Again, we strongly suggest that the University disassociate itself
from anything to do with Anthroposophy beyond studies of comparative
religion in Philosophy and cult-like new religious movements in
Sociology.
Sincerely, Dan Dugan, Secretary
for the Board of PLANS, Inc.
CC:
Robert A. Corrigan, President
Thomas J. La Belle, Provost and Vice President for Academic Affairs
Mary Beth Love, Chair, Health Education Department
Erik Peper, Director, Holistic Health Studies Institute
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 770
-- Topica Digest --
Re: San Francisco State University - rebuttal to response
By snell gv.net
Re: San Francisco State University - rebuttal to response
By dan dandugan.com
Re: San Francisco State University - rebuttal to response
By mysplum earthlink.net
Re: San Francisco State University - response to letter 2/10/02
By awaldenpond shaw.ca
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 10:17:02 -0700
From: Debra Snell (snell gv.net)
Subject: Re: San Francisco State University - rebuttal to response
Dan,
Ask if you can give a slide show to the class. Challenge his
statement that the college encourages critical thinking.
Debra
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 10:28:10 -0700
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Re: San Francisco State University - rebuttal to response
Debra, you wrote,
)Ask if you can give a slide show to the class. Challenge his
)statement that the college encourages critical thinking.
It was a two-weekend intensive, over now. I'd like to do something next year.
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 14:37:39 -0700
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: San Francisco State University - rebuttal to response
on 7/1/02 10:28 AM, Dan Dugan at dan dandugan.com wrote:
) Debra, you wrote,
)
)) Ask if you can give a slide show to the class. Challenge his
)) statement that the college encourages critical thinking.
)
) It was a two-weekend intensive, over now. I'd like to do something next year.
Sharon: If the university offers the class again and they don't allow you in
as a speaker, let's protest with large banners of Steiner quotes. If you are
allowed to speak, make sure the students get a good dose of the esoteric
subtext, they should learn about Steiner's assertion that bacilli are
demonic embodiments of lies. They should also learn about the subjective
deductions made by Anthro doctors regarding children's past lives. Also,
Steiner's inclusion of Christian Cabalism, ie the notion that reiterated
speech sounds can cure illnesses.
I have 2 new, very interesting Anthro books lent to me by a friend which I
will quote from as soon as I have the time. One is all about the spirit of
Michael (who plays a major role in Waldorf), the other is about childhood
illnesses.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 13:36:35 -0700
From: walden (awaldenpond shaw.ca)
Subject: Re: San Francisco State University - response to letter 2/10/02
(snip)
) Anthroposophical Medicine is an extension of regular, academically
) based medicine which integrates allopathic medicine and considered by
) some members of our faculty to be Anthroposophical world
) conceptions.[sic]
Walden: This is simply not true. Anthro doctors (be they right or wrong)
see the human as a spiritual being - children are incarnating, etc. To
suggest that this type of metaphysical approach to healing is an extension
of academically based medicine is not even stretching the truth - it is
wrong. This type of statement - especially from a university - must be
challenged.
) Anthroposophy is a way of conducting research and
) enhancing one's abilities to penetrate the phenomenon of nature and
) the human being. (snip)
Walden: Again - this is false as has been shown many times on this very
list - or by reading Steiner. I find it disturbing that a university would
be so naive as to believe this propaganda and even more disturbing that they
seem to be promoting it.
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 771
-- Topica Digest --
they're talking about us on SJU...
By dan dandugan.com
Re: San Francisco State University - rebuttal to response
By awaldenpond shaw.ca
refreshing Anthroposophic view
By awaldenpond shaw.ca
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:43:36 -0700
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Cc: arthur arthurfink.com, kari MINDCASTLES.COM, leshoffman EARTHLINK.NET
Subject: they're talking about us on SJU...
PLANS is being talked about on the "official" Waldorf discussion list:
)7/2/02, Kari Matthews wrote:
)
))I came across this today and am wondering what you all think. I'm new
))to Waldorf education; my son is 8 months old and I am researching
))Waldorf as a viable option for him. That's why I'm posting this ... not
))to upset anyone; just to hear how you all would respond to this.
))
))http://www.waldorfcritics.org/
Arthur Fink explained the party line:
)It's quite well known to many of us, and has often been a topic of
)conversation here.
)
)Let me try (foolish fellow that I am) to summarize:
)
)* The Waldorf Critics list has an axe to grind ... a belief that Waldorf
)is, for various reasons, completely wrong.
Arthur isn't clear about the difference between a web site and a
discussion list. There are certainly some people on the discussion
list who say Waldorf is completely wrong, but that isn't PLANS'
position on the web site.
)* It is not a place for loving criticism, designed to strengthen and
)enhance Waldorf. Rather it is a place of tearing down.
Yeah, right, pointing out problems like quack science and racism is
"tearing down." If "loving criticism" was effective there wouldn't be
any need for PLANS.
)* Many of us have been troubled by their policies of reproducing posts
)without permission, and other related violations.
You want your discussions on a public list to be private. You can't
have it both ways. Quoting publications for educational purposes
isn't a violation, it's called fair use.
)* Much of the information there is serious inaccurate.
Anthropops and their supporters love to make vague charges like this.
C'mon, Arthur, just what is "inaccurate"?
)* If you have concerns about what's posted there, it's probably best to
)raise them there -- and see what you find.
Excellent advice. The waldorf-critics list is always open for
uncensored public discussion, unlike some lists...
)* There's plenty of opportunity for positive criticism and exploration
)here. But simply repeating the many baseless charges from the Waldorf
)Critics list is not a good way to start that off.
Yawn. What's "baseless," Arthur. If Waldorf education is -based- on
lectures by Rudolf Steiner, wouldn't reading Steiner be a good -base-
for understanding and criticizing it?
)I'd suggest that it's most productive if posts on this list are based on
)our own real experiences with Waldorf Schools we have visited, have
)enrolled our children in, teach in, or whatever.
Nicey-nice way of saying "Don't examine Waldorf from outside the
information we have carefully prepared for you. We know better than
you what you need to know."
Leslie Hoffman had a different opinion:
)I too found this site when I was researching Waldorf for my 10
)year-old son. At first, I was disturbed. But in retrospect, I found
)the comments on this list and "that" list to be very illuminating.
)The people behind PLANS are very intelligent if not a bit obsessed.
)Some of their criticism is valid and some of it is just plain silly.
)But it opened my eyes to many things that could go wrong in a
)Waldorf school and gave me things to ask of my son's teacher and
)school. After researching all the various data available from PLANS,
)I am more comfortable than ever with my decision [to send my child
)to a Waldorf school].
Thanks, Leslie, that's just what PLANS wants, informed parents.
Sincerely, Dan Dugan
cc: Fink, Matthews, Hoffman
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 23:09:01 -0700
From: walden (awaldenpond shaw.ca)
Subject: Re: San Francisco State University - rebuttal to response
Walden: While I respect the right of anyone to study anything they like,
should not public institutions (universities) have a duty to promote courses
with care and attention to at least some details of the subject matter? How
is a student to know what the course is *really* all about prior to signing
up?
From: HealthCare Reality Check - http://www.hcrc.org/faqs/anthrop.html
Anthroposophical Medicine involves an internationally organized group of
people who think that Rudolf Steiner (an Austrian physician, 1861-1925)
found the ultimate truth - the anthroposophy. Steiner said:
"By anthroposophy, I mean a scientific investigation of the spiritual world
which will bring to light the weaknessess and half-truths not only of
science but also of modern mysticism. It is a method which, before
attempting to investigate the spiritual worlds, first develops psychic
powers not normally used in daily life or in current scientific research."
The Anthroposophic cult is managed from Dornach, Switzerland. They have
private universities in, at least, Switzerland and Germany. The cult has
tight rules and they are very effective in lobbying for favorable political
decisions. A good example is the current Medicine Act in the European Union.
Anthroposophic medicines are officially acknowledged as medicines in the
whole of Europe, although the cult itself is not known in all of the 15
countries. No proof of efficacy or safety is required. Anthroposophers often
present themselves as proponents of freedom of choice in health care.
The medicines in anthroposophic medicine are chosen by means of
meditation.... Homeopathic medicines, heavy metals, etc. are used "as in
ancient times." The diagnosis of cancer, for instance, is based on "balance
of forces in the blood" as determined by crystalization by copper chloride,
etc. Clairrvoyance is the ultimate level of an anthroposopher.
In general the cult is closed and secretive, but Steiner and Waldorf schools
teach the ideas of Steiner (law of Karma and reincarnation etc.) to school
children. In many countries, anthroposophists have succeeded in getting an
official status (and state's financial support) for their schools.
Biodynamic farming is also part of their activities. Stellar constellations,
as in astrology, are taken into account when conducting farming activities
such as planting and harvesting.
An extensive review of the German anthroposophic group was published in Der
Spiegel in 1984 [1].
For more information
Anthroposophical Medicine, NCAHF Newsletter, Volume 18-1.
Robert Carroll, PhD. Anthroposophy, Rudolph Steiner and Waldorf Schools. The
Skeptic's Dictionary.
Search the HCRC and NCAHF Web Sites
References
Der Spiegel, 1984 (No 17, pp. 60-79; No 18, pp. 190-204; No 19, pp. 169-186;
Nos 20 and 21;No 22, pp. 94-121; and No 23, pp. 178-186).
Spiegel-Buch Nro 50 by Peter Bruegge: Die Anthroposophen. Waldorfschulen -
Biodynamischer Landbau - Ganzheitsmedizin - Kosmische Heilslehre. 208 pages.
Swiss Society for Oncology & Swiss Cancer League, Study Group on Unproven
Methods in Oncology, File No. 9 E: The principles of anthroposophy as
applied to medicine and cancer (March 1984) 5,5 pages (including a list of
16 references)*
Swiss Society for Oncology & Swiss Cancer League, Study Group on Unproven
Methods in Oncology, File No. 10 E: Iscador. 7 pages, 36 references*
Swiss Society for Oncology & Swiss Cancer League, Study Group on Unproven
Methods in Oncology, File No. 19 E: Helixore - mistletoe preparations for
treatment of cancer. 9 pages, 14 references*
Swiss Society for Oncology & Swiss Cancer League, Study Group on Unproven
Methods in Oncology, File No. 20 E: Vysorel/Isorel - anticancer agent from
Viscum album. 6 pages, 14 references*
Swiss Society for Oncology & Swiss Cancer League, Study Group on Unproven
Methods in Oncology, File No. 21 E: Iscucin - preparations for pre- and
postoperative treatment of malignant tumours, 6 pages, 13 references *
Rudolf Steiner: Health and Illness. Volumes I and II The Anthroposophic
Press, New York, 1981 (Vol. I), 1983 (Vol. II). * Swiss Cancer League
P.O.Box 2284
CH-3001 Berne
Switzerland
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 00:16:41 -0700
From: walden (awaldenpond shaw.ca)
Subject: refreshing Anthroposophic view
From:
The Biodynamic Movement: The Complexity of Being Both Esoteric and Exoteric
Andrew Lorand
Originally published in BIODYNAMICS 234, March/April, 2001
"We may have been afraid of being seen as a religious cult and therefore did
not speak openly about our spirituality, but I think equally detrimental to
our success has been our lack of professionalism. In all these criticisms, I
include myself and wish that I/we could muster so much more professional
management of our activities. I think we can if we help each other. It does
not follow just because we are a spiritually oriented group seeking to bring
esoteric knowledge into practical life that we must give up on being
professional. "
Walden: The entire article is worth reading, IMO :
http://www.biodynamics.com/biodynamicsarticles/lorand.html
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 772
-- Topica Digest --
Re: refreshing Anthroposophic view
By mysplum earthlink.net
Re: refreshing Anthroposophic view
By dan dandugan.com
By epizito_alithea hotmail.com
Support groups etc.?
By epizito_alithea hotmail.com
Re: mypo
By awaldenpond shaw.ca
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 08:21:26 -0700
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: refreshing Anthroposophic view
on 7/4/02 12:16 AM, walden at awaldenpond shaw.ca wrote:
) From:
) The Biodynamic Movement: The Complexity of Being Both Esoteric and Exoteric
) Andrew Lorand
)
) Originally published in BIODYNAMICS 234, March/April, 2001
)
) "We may have been afraid of being seen as a religious cult and therefore did
) not speak openly about our spirituality, but I think equally detrimental to
) our success has been our lack of professionalism. In all these criticisms, I
) include myself and wish that I/we could muster so much more professional
) management of our activities. I think we can if we help each other. It does
) not follow just because we are a spiritually oriented group seeking to bring
) esoteric knowledge into practical life that we must give up on being
) professional. "
Sharon: One of the theories that I learned about in my cult class regarding
the reasons for people joining cults is that people seek out
"unprofessional" (non institutionalized) groups as a reaction to the
impersonal qualities of established institutions. Much of what is wrong with
Waldorf would be sorted out if the schools were open and honest to parents
and children about their mystery training.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 11:11:06 -0700
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Re: refreshing Anthroposophic view
)Walden: The entire article is worth reading, IMO :
)http://www.biodynamics.com/biodynamicsarticles/lorand.html
Indeed! If anyone has the slightest doubt that Anthroposophy is a
religious movement, and the relationship of "daughter movements" to
Anthroposophy, this article will dispel it.
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 03:01:15 +0000
From: mypo (epizito_alithea hotmail.com)
Subject:
Hi, straight to the point,
I have been reading some of the archives and a question I haven't seen
raised is whether there was any specific [either by steiner himself or
in a waldorf hand-out] mention of 'promised powers' gained by either
being in a waldorf school or practising something specific etc.
-= mypo =-
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 04:56:54 +0000
From: mypo (epizito_alithea hotmail.com)
Subject: Support groups etc.?
Are there any post-steiner [waldorf] support groups? Apart from seeing a
exit cousellor who may or may not know about waldorf education.
Especially anyone or organisation in Australia. Apart from
www.cultcounselling.org
Is it seen as a cult in that sense, if it is recognised as a cult then
[logially] there would be recognition that help is needed after you
leave/kicked out/etc.
just wondering...
-= mypo =-
-= mypo =-
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 00:23:56 -0700
From: walden (awaldenpond shaw.ca)
Subject: Re: mypo
----- Original Message -----
From: "mypo" (epizito_alithea hotmail.com)
To: (waldorf-critics topica.com)
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 8:01 PM
) Hi, straight to the point,
) I have been reading some of the archives and a question I haven't seen
) raised is whether there was any specific [either by steiner himself or
) in a waldorf hand-out] mention of 'promised powers' gained by either
) being in a waldorf school or practising something specific etc.
)
) -= mypo =-
Walden:
Hi there -=mypo=-,
Off the top of my head ...
"In causing people to do eurythmy we link them directly with the
supersensible world..."
"One can foresee for the far distant future that there will be an
art of great perfection that will stand out beyond poetry, as poetry stands
out beyond music, music beyond painting, painting beyond sculpture, and
sculpture beyond architecture (this being a question not of superiority, but
of arrangement). You will guess, of course, that I am referring to something
of which we know only the most elementary beginnings today: something of
which we can only receive the first indications: the art of eurythmy.
Eurythmy is indeed something that must appear in human evolution at this
time; but there is no call for pride, for at present it can be a mere
babbling compared with what it will become in the future" " (Steiner,
Rudolf. Art in the Light of
Mystery Wisdom).
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 773
-- Topica Digest --
Re: powers gained by following Steiner's path
By mysplum earthlink.net
Re: they're talking about us on SJU...
By awaldenpond shaw.ca
Re: they're talking about us on SJU...
By mysplum earthlink.net
artical about crayons etc.
By epizito_alithea hotmail.com
Re: they're talking about us on SJU...
By awaldenpond shaw.ca
Re: they're talking about us on SJU...
By kateabooth yahoo.com.au
Re: Support groups etc.?
By dan dandugan.com
Admin: web counter 90,246
By dan dandugan.com
what Anthroposophy promises.
By dan dandugan.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 09:57:03 -0700
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: powers gained by following Steiner's path
on 7/4/02 8:01 PM, mypo at epizito_alithea hotmail.com wrote:
) Hi, straight to the point,
) I have been reading some of the archives and a question I haven't seen
) raised is whether there was any specific [either by steiner himself or
) in a waldorf hand-out] mention of 'promised powers' gained by either
) being in a waldorf school or practising something specific etc.
Sharon: Firstly, for those that are interested, don't miss the wonderful
quote towards the end of this post from the new book I'm reading on
Archangel Michael. It's a beaut! (Look for ****.)
Mypo, Anthroposophists are not that direct when it comes to Waldorf
handouts, which is why PLANS exists. We want Waldorf to be exoteric and
inform parents before they enroll children about their esoteric subtext.
Steiner often promises special powers to those who follow Anthroposophy, and
we have discussed them at length here on critics. If you follow Steiner's
path of initiation, you will see spirit beings and become prepared for
future incarnations and bodily evolutions. Steiner told his followers to
incorporate Anthroposophy organically into Waldorf lessons, for example he
said "You cannot do Eurythmy without Anthroposophy. You must try and bring
Anthroposophy into the lesson in such a way that it becomes part of it,
without teaching it theoretically if you can possibly avoid it" (Rudolf
Steiner, Conferences with the Teachers of the Waldorf School in Stuttgart
1919 to 1920: Volume One: The First and Second Years of the Waldorf School,
Stuttgart. p 90 Forest Row, U.K: Steiner Schools Fellowship Publications,
1986).
He taught that if you devote yourself to color, you will see through the
walls into the neighborhood and you will see spirit beings. Depending on the
color you devote yourself to, will depend on which spirit beings you will
see. (One of the reasons for painting classroom walls with transparent
washes, and making the color wet-on-wets).
In future, when Earth becomes Venus, the spiritually advanced, trained by
Anthroposophy, will have special powers and communicate with pictures and
colors.
The spiritually advanced will have the power to give birth by speaking
another into existence on Vulcan.
The spiritually advanced will be well prepared by the Anthroposophical
movement to remember their "I" and have the power to recognize those that
they worked with on Earth, they will find each other in the after life so
that they may reincarnate together in core groups spread around the Earth.
The following quote from one of Steiner's followers is from the latest
Anthro book that I'm reading and ties in nicely with your questions Mypo. I
have been promising list mates to quote from this book, so here we go!
***** E. E. Pfeiffer: "[M]odern education as it was already one hundred
years ago is absolutely hostile to the development of spiritual faculties
and capacities. The possibilities for the conscious development of spiritual
properties are absolutely destroyed through the kind of education we have.
We have all suffered harm from such education. If we had had a Waldorf
School education we would have had much more will power for bringing about
our spiritual development. We would have been more able to break through the
stone wall around us and cross the Threshold and look into the spiritual
world with all the capacities we bring with us from previous
incarnations...From this we can understand what Rudolf Steiner has done for
us. We observe that Rudolf Steiner was strong enough to be able to go
through modern education and even take his degree in philosophy and still
not lose his faculties. The leaders of karma had learned that it was
necessary that tremendous protection be given to such a personality. It was
necessary that there be a tremendous concentration of hierarchical beings on
him to enable him to carry out his task. We see how he carried a new impulse
that had been awaited for two thousand years, an impulse of which St. Paul
spoke openly and others secretly. History will record that Rudolf Steiner
taught the path into the spiritual world. He was the first in history who
gave not only the contents of his spiritual experience but the preparatory
exercises necessary to come to the point of seeing across the Threshold
oneself. Rudolf Steiner gave these, and in such a way that every human being
in possession of his senses can take the path, can even conquer the effects
of modern education and cross the Threshold. Attempts at this had been made
since the founding of Christianity, but he made it impossible to penetrate
the Threshold.
Another thing: Christian Rosenkreutz started to teach of a hierarchical
order, so that the Christ Being could be understood from the earthly side,
but the cosmic side still remained hidden. There have also been other such
teachings, but none so clear as that of Rudolf Steiner...In one hundred
years, or five hundred years, there will be an understanding of the
greatness of Rudolf Steiner" (E. E. Pfeiffer, 32-33. The Task of the
Archangel Michael. Mercury Press 1985. Notes from lecture given in 1946).
Steiner: "If you bring children as many living pictures as possible, if you
educate them by speaking in pictures, then you sow the seed for a continuous
retention of oxygen, for continuous development, because you direct the
children toward the future, toward life after death" (Rudolf Steiner, p 62.
The Foundations of Human Experience: Foundations of Waldorf Education.
Anthroposophic Press 1966).
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 10:37:17 -0700
From: walden (awaldenpond shaw.ca)
Subject: Re: they're talking about us on SJU...
Dan Dugan wrote:
) PLANS is being talked about on the "official" Waldorf discussion list:
)
) )7/2/02, Kari Matthews wrote:
) )
) ))I came across this today and am wondering what you all think. I'm new
) ))to Waldorf education; my son is 8 months old and I am researching
) ))Waldorf as a viable option for him. That's why I'm posting this ... not
) ))to upset anyone; just to hear how you all would respond to this.
) ))
) ))http://www.waldorfcritics.org/
)
) Arthur Fink explained the party line:
)
) )It's quite well known to many of us, and has often been a topic of
) )conversation here.
) )
) )Let me try (foolish fellow that I am) to summarize:
) )
) )* The Waldorf Critics list has an axe to grind ... a belief that Waldorf
) )is, for various reasons, completely wrong.
Walden: This type of generalization is wrong - not a list of individuals on
any list. There is no Waldorf Critics list that has one belief as far as I
can see. Speaking from the *I* (g)... I do not want to tear down Waldorf
nor do I believe Waldorf is completely wrong. There are elements of the
Waldorf *approach* I think are wonderful. However... the movement needs
light shed on it - especially in the dark corners where the dust is thick.
What *I* do think is wrong is for a religious movement to pretend it is
anything but what it is. Tell parents all about teachers incarnating
children's souls a la Steiner and the black crayon issue and the reality of
eurythmy and wet on wet and the "verse" and your version of karma and how
*that* is worked into the life of the school and spell out your conflict
resolution policy and tell us about Lucifer and how reading is bad for young
children and explain Steiner's racist remarks... and .... and...and....
But leave baking and knitting alone. They were fine.
-Walden
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 18:49:11 -0700
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: they're talking about us on SJU...
on 7/5/02 10:37 AM, walden at awaldenpond shaw.ca wrote:
)
) Walden: This type of generalization is wrong - not a list of individuals on
) any list. There is no Waldorf Critics list that has one belief as far as I
) can see. Speaking from the *I* (g)... I do not want to tear down Waldorf
) nor do I believe Waldorf is completely wrong. There are elements of the
) Waldorf *approach* I think are wonderful. However... the movement needs
) light shed on it - especially in the dark corners where the dust is thick.
) What *I* do think is wrong is for a religious movement to pretend it is
) anything but what it is. Tell parents all about teachers incarnating
) children's souls a la Steiner and the black crayon issue and the reality of
) eurythmy and wet on wet and the "verse" and your version of karma and how
) *that* is worked into the life of the school and spell out your conflict
) resolution policy and tell us about Lucifer and how reading is bad for young
) children and explain Steiner's racist remarks... and .... and...and....
Sharon: ...and let parents and children know why they are made to
"reverence" Michael:
"Michael was a cosmic spirit. Now he has come to earth and is our leader in
anthroposophy. It is his task to see that there not be darkness all over the
earth, and that there come about a union between West and East. All the
streams are gradually moving together again, converging into one focus, out
of which the New Sun will appear. It is Michael's task to bring this about,
and that is one reason for Michael's leadership of the time.
When in our Society we see the impulse toward splitting and breaking apart,
we can think of Michael, whose task it is that there be light somewhere
always, and who has to unite what has fallen apart. This is the task to
which we must yield if we accept anthroposophy consciously with our souls"
(E.E. Pfeiffer. The Task of the Archangel Michael, p44. Mercury Press 1985,
Spring Valley, NY.
) But leave baking and knitting alone. They were fine.
Sharon: Well I think parents should be told that children knit because they
have to make leminscates, and that certain grains are to be eaten on certain
days according to planetary alignment (G)!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 03:28:15 +0000
From: mypo (epizito_alithea hotmail.com)
Subject: artical about crayons etc.
There was an artical online i came across yesterday and now i can't find
it, anyway, it was longish had quotes from debra snell and mentioned
plans etc. but something i saw in it had quotes from
professors/reasearchers/psychologists [one of them] about the use of
crayons and how it interfers with natural development because you cannot
draw in a linear fashion. I did a search on google to show debra's name
and other articals came up but not the one i'm after.
-= mypo =-
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 22:03:18 -0700
From: walden (awaldenpond shaw.ca)
Subject: Re: they're talking about us on SJU...
) ) But leave baking and knitting alone. They were fine.
)
) Sharon: Well I think parents should be told that children knit because
they
) have to make leminscates, and that certain grains are to be eaten on
certain
) days according to planetary alignment (G)!
Walden: Tell me you jest - please....
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 15:42:33 +1000 (EST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Kate=20Booth?= (kateabooth yahoo.com.au)
Subject: Re: they're talking about us on SJU...
) ) But leave baking and knitting alone. They were
) fine.
)
) Sharon: Well I think parents should be told that
) children knit because they
) have to make leminscates, and that certain grains
) are to be eaten on certain
) days according to planetary alignment (G)!
)
) )
Please tell me what are "Leminscates"?
Thanks Kate Booth
http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au
- Find yourself a bargain!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 23:14:11 -0700
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Re: Support groups etc.?
mypo, you wrote,
)Are there any post-steiner [waldorf] support groups? Apart from seeing a
)exit cousellor who may or may not know about waldorf education.
)Especially anyone or organisation in Australia. Apart from
)www.cultcounselling.org
You can do peer counseling on the waldorf-survivors-only discussion list.
)Is it seen as a cult in that sense, if it is recognised as a cult then
)[logially] there would be recognition that help is needed after you
)leave/kicked out/etc.
PLANS calls Anthroposophy a "cult-like religious sect." It was a cult
when Steiner was alive. Since 1925 it's been on a very slow path to
becoming a religious sect, clinging stubbornly to cult-like habits.
Anti-cult organizations and scholars of new religious movements are
starting to become aware of Anthroposophy. The French anti-cult
commission labeled Anthroposophy a cult.
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 23:30:53 -0700
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Admin: web counter 90,246
On July 1, 2002, the PLANS web site had registered 90,246 visitors
since August 12, 1996. (Visitors, not hits, repeats on the same day
are not counted. Thanks, Web-Counter: http://www.digits.com.)
We had 3485 visitors in the last 48 days, averaging 73 per day.
Hit counters give much higher but less meaningful numbers, because
they count every page and image viewed. The hits on our site in the
month of June totaled 128,448, averaging 4281 per day.
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 01:05:27 -0700
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: what Anthroposophy promises.
mypo, you asked,
)I have been reading some of the archives and a question I haven't seen
)raised is whether there was any specific [either by steiner himself or
)in a waldorf hand-out] mention of 'promised powers' gained by either
)being in a waldorf school or practising something specific etc.
Steiner said that his clairvoyant powers, including the ability to
read the past and future in the "akashic record," could be developed
by anybody who practiced his exercises. Few have claimed to have
achieved anything like that.
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 774
-- Topica Digest --
Re: they're talking about us on SJU...
By mysplum earthlink.net
Re: they're talking about us on SJU...
By mysplum earthlink.net
Eating grains
By marja.viita luukku.com
Re: vaccine safety question settled
By dan dandugan.com
Re: vaccine safety question settled
By leshoffman earthlink.net
Re: vaccine safety question settled
By willow.firesong creative-interweb.com
Re: vaccine safety question settled
By leshoffman earthlink.net
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 10:17:46 -0700
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: they're talking about us on SJU...
on 7/5/02 10:42 PM, Kate Booth at kateabooth yahoo.com.au wrote:
)
) Please tell me what are "Leminscates"?
) Thanks Kate Booth
Sharon: A leminscate is a sign that resembles the figure 8 which stands for
eternity. The leminscate is a very holy symbol in Anthroposophy. Steiner's
first Goetheanum (mystical temple) was built to represent the leminscate
(eternity). If you read Anthroposophic books you will notice that many
illustrations explaining Steiner's "science" utilize the leminscate. For
example Steiner drew a leminscate to show how the astral body travels at
night in the cosmos. It is an important and basic symbol of Anthroposophy
with healing powers. I read once that children knit in order to be exposed
to the healing powers of leminscates. The fingers make leminscates with the
wool around the needles.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 10:19:45 -0700
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: they're talking about us on SJU...
on 7/5/02 10:03 PM, walden at awaldenpond shaw.ca wrote:
)
) Walden: Tell me you jest - please....
Sharon: No I don't.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 19:16:09 +0000
From: Marja (marja.viita luukku.com)
Subject: Eating grains
mysplum wrote:
) ... and that certain grains are to be eaten on certain
) days according to planetary alignment (G)!
Please tell more about grain-eating.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 13:58:28 -0700
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Re: vaccine safety question settled
Leslie Hoffman, you wrote on 6/13,
)This might be a silly question, but if your child is immunized,
)aren't they protected from the childhood disease that the
)un-immunized child has?
Yes, though protection isn't complete, so "herd" protection is much
more reliable than individual protection.
)Also, this problem of families not immunizing children is not only a
)Waldorf problem. People from all walks-of-life believe (I think
)erroneously) that immunizations are dangerous and don't get them.
Right, there's a popular anti-immunization movement based mainly on
ignorance and credulity. Any school nowadays will have some
immunization-refusing families, some for good reasons, most from
misunderstanding. What rankles us here is that Waldorf opposes
immunizations -institutionally-, so the rate of non-immunization will
be dangerously high at a Waldorf school. And the Waldorf teachers
appeal to the common anti-immunization sentiments without explaining
that -their- real reason is Steiner Said.
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 18:31:08 -0700
From: Leslie Hoffman (leshoffman earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: vaccine safety question settled
Thanks for your response. I have another question that is off the
immunization discussion, so I hope you don't mind.... Do you think that
not every Waldorf school is the same? Do you think it is possible that
some Waldorf/Steiner schools are more attached to Steiner
philosophy/dogma than others? Like, for example, promoting no
immunizations? This is not a retorical question. In my relatively
short time researching the schools it seems like the discussion is about
2 different schools. What is your impression?
Leslie
Dan Dugan wrote:
) Leslie Hoffman, you wrote on 6/13,
)
) )This might be a silly question, but if your child is immunized,
) )aren't they protected from the childhood disease that the
) )un-immunized child has?
)
) Yes, though protection isn't complete, so "herd" protection is much
) more reliable than individual protection.
)
) )Also, this problem of families not immunizing children is not only a
) )Waldorf problem. People from all walks-of-life believe (I think
) )erroneously) that immunizations are dangerous and don't get them.
)
) Right, there's a popular anti-immunization movement based mainly on
) ignorance and credulity. Any school nowadays will have some
) immunization-refusing families, some for good reasons, most from
) misunderstanding. What rankles us here is that Waldorf opposes
) immunizations -institutionally-, so the rate of non-immunization will
) be dangerously high at a Waldorf school. And the Waldorf teachers
) appeal to the common anti-immunization sentiments without explaining
) that -their- real reason is Steiner Said.
)
) -Dan Dugan
)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 13:20:30 +0930
From: Willow Firesong (Willow.Firesong creative-interweb.com)
Subject: Re: vaccine safety question settled
)Leslie Hoffman, you wrote on 6/13,
))Also, this problem of families not immunizing children is not only a
))Waldorf problem. People from all walks-of-life believe (I think
))erroneously) that immunizations are dangerous and don't get them.
At 06-07-02 01:58 PM Saturday, Dan Dugan wrote:
)Right, there's a popular anti-immunization movement based mainly on
)ignorance and credulity. Any school nowadays will have some
)immunization-refusing families, some for good reasons, most from
)misunderstanding. What rankles us here is that Waldorf opposes
)immunizations -institutionally-, so the rate of non-immunization will be
)dangerously high at a Waldorf school. And the Waldorf teachers appeal to
)the common anti-immunization sentiments without explaining that -their-
)real reason is Steiner Said.
I think it's also important to note that Steiner didn't say "don't
immunize", as there was no such thing as vaccines in his era - what he said
was that certain childhood illnesses were good and/or necessary for a
child's development, and in connection with their karma and reincarnative
process. As a result, the schools' policy is not about avoiding any risks
associated with the vaccines (the concern of most non-vaccinating parents),
their policy is about making sure that the children have a chance to get
the illnesses, meaning that they also don't quarantine in cases of
outbreaks of childhood illnesses. As a non-vaccinating parent, I would
have greatly appreciated being informed of that, going in.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 21:17:26 -0700
From: Leslie Hoffman (leshoffman earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: vaccine safety question settled
(!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en")
(html)
(p)Willow Firesong wrote:
(blockquote TYPE=CITE)
(br)
(br)
(p)Willow Firesong wrote:
(blockquote TYPE=CITE)
(p)(i)I think it's also important to note that Steiner didn't say "don't(/i)
(br)(i)immunize", as there was no such thing as vaccines in his era - what
he said(/i)
(br)(i)was that certain childhood illnesses were good and/or necessary
for a(/i)
(br)(i)child's development, and in connection with their karma and
reincarnative(/i)
(br)(i)process. As a result, the schools' policy is not about avoiding
any risks(/i)
(br)(i)associated with the vaccines (the concern of most non-vaccinating
parents),(/i)
(br)(i)their policy is about making sure that the children have a chance
to get(/i)
(br)(i)the illnesses, meaning that they also don't quarantine in cases
of(/i)
(br)(i)outbreaks of childhood illnesses. As a non-vaccinating parent,
I would(/i)
(br)(i)have greatly appreciated being informed of that, going in.(/i)
(br)(i)(/i) (/blockquote)
(/blockquote)
(p)(br)I agree that this would be a problem and something I would want
to know about. Leslie
(blockquote TYPE=CITE)
(blockquote TYPE=CITE)(i)(/i)
I think it's also important to note that Steiner didn't say "don't
(br)immunize", as there was no such thing as vaccines in his era - what
he said
(br)was that certain childhood illnesses were good and/or necessary for
a
(br)child's development, and in connection with their karma and reincarnative
(br)process. As a result, the schools' policy is not about avoiding
any risks
(br)associated with the vaccines (the concern of most non-vaccinating parents),
(br)their policy is about making sure that the children have a chance to
get
(br)the illnesses, meaning that they also don't quarantine in cases of
(br)outbreaks of childhood illnesses. As a non-vaccinating parent,
I would
(br)have greatly appreciated being informed of that, going in.
(/html)
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 775
-- Topica Digest --
Re: vaccine safety question settled
By Diana.Winters worldnet.att.net
translate this anybody?
By epizito_alithea hotmail.com
Re: translate this anybody?
By Gary GoodWinter.com
The beginnings
By epizito_alithea hotmail.com
Re: translate this anybody?
By adolder attglobal.net
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 09:19:24 -0400
From: "Diana Winters" (diana.winters worldnet.att.net)
Subject: Re: vaccine safety question settled
Leslie wrote:
)Do you think it is possible that some Waldorf/Steiner schools are more
)attached to Steiner philosophy/dogma than others? Like, for example,
promoting no
)immunizations? This is not a retorical question. In my relatively
)short time researching the schools it seems like the discussion is about
)2 different schools. What is your impression?
Oh, of course there is a lot of variation. I mean, they are made up of
individuals, and since the schools are all over the world, there
are all kinds of cultural variations as well. Individual teachers do vary
in how much they adhere to Steiner, and whether they have other
training or experience that enables them to draw on non-Steiner sources.
And something that is completely proscribed in one Waldorf school may be
orthodoxy in another, just because they are interpreting Steiner different
ways,
or because a forceful personality won the argument.
But why choose a school where the further they are from what the founder
intended, the better? Isn't that weird? Why not pick a school whose
philosophy you *do* agree with, rather than hoping that you get a teacher
who does not adhere too closely to the school's philosophy? (For one thing,
this teacher will be constantly fighting the purists. Working against the
system
is exhausting and this teacher will probably leave demoralized or be forced
out
long before the promised 6 or 8 years are up.)
What does it tell you about Waldorf, if the best Waldorf schools are the
least
Waldorfy?
As for immunization, while the attitude is likely to be general disapproval,
how much energy they put into "educating" parents about this just depends
on the individuals. There are *so* many things parents need to be educated
about (in their view) - they pick their battles.
Diana
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 04:14:19 +0000
From: mypo (epizito_alithea hotmail.com)
Subject: translate this anybody?
Can somebody translate this for me? from [
http://www.anthroposophie-de.com/aag/moltpic.html ]
Wir h?rten Rudolf Steiner sagen:
"Emil Molt h?tte wohl nicht den Mut zu dieser
gro?en Tat der Schulgr?ndung gefunden,
wenn nicht seine ihm gleichgestimmte
Frau Berta ihn mit ihrer Liebef?higkeit
unterst?tzt und ermutigt h?tte."?
thanks,
-= mypo =-
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 00:31:31 -0400
From: Gary Bonhiver (Gary goodwinter.com)
Subject: Re: translate this anybody?
on 7/8/02 12:14 AM, mypo at epizito_alithea hotmail.com wrote:
) Can somebody translate this for me? from [
) http://www.anthroposophie-de.com/aag/moltpic.html ]
)
) Wir h?rten Rudolf Steiner sagen:
) "Emil Molt h?tte wohl nicht den Mut zu dieser
) gro?en Tat der Schulgr?ndung gefunden,
) wenn nicht seine ihm gleichgestimmte
) Frau Berta ihn mit ihrer Liebef?higkeit
) unterst?tzt und ermutigt h?tte."?
)
) thanks,
) -= mypo =-
AltaVista "machine" translator provides the following translation...
http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr
) We heard Rudolf Steiner say: "Emil Molt would probably not have found the
) courage to this large act of the school establishment, if not its it
) equivalent Mrs. Berta it with its love ability supported and had encouraged."
...Gary Bonhiver
www.waldorfcritics.org Webmaster
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 05:08:52 +0000
From: mypo (epizito_alithea hotmail.com)
Subject: The beginnings
What online information is there regarding the beginnings of waldorf?
The only information I have found is a brief paragraph about Emil Molt
and the cigerate company the place and date of the first school.
Who then was in charge of things after steiner's death?
Was there an exact syllabus [forgive the spelling] written? there is
'introduction to waldorf education' and 'spirt of education' [the titles
are not exact, just from the top of my head but im sure you know the
ones I mean]. Why is the stance on computers and tv seen as an official
waldorf endorsment [promoted as though it's a requirement like the
different coloured class rooms] when steiner wasn't ever around when
these things were invented! I would like to know about the people who
led [I know there was no one person] the waldorf schools in the early
days....
-= mypo =-
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 02:58:24 -0700
From: "Alfred Dolder" (adolder attglobal.net)
Subject: Re: translate this anybody?
"Emil Molt
We heard Rudolf Steiner say: "Emil Molt would probably not have found the
courage to accomplish the challenging task of founding a school, if his
like minded wife Berta would not have supported him with her ability to love
and encouragement."
We hear Rudolf Steiner say:
"Emil Molt
) Wir h?rten Rudolf Steiner sagen:
) "Emil Molt h?tte wohl nicht den Mut zu dieser
) gro?en Tat der Schulgr?ndung gefunden,
) wenn nicht seine ihm gleichgestimmte
) Frau Berta ihn mit ihrer Liebef?higkeit
) unterst?tzt und ermutigt h?tte."?
)
) thanks,
) -= mypo =-
)
)
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 776
-- Topica Digest --
Re: Eating grains
By mysplum earthlink.net
Re: The beginnings
By mysplum earthlink.net
Re: The beginnings
By mysplum earthlink.net
RE: Eating grains + colours for each day
By marja.viita luukku.com
RE: Eating grains
By marja.viita luukku.com
RE: Eating grains
By dan dandugan.com
Re: Eating grains
By awaldenpond shaw.ca
Re: Eating grains
By willow.firesong creative-interweb.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 08:51:30 -0700
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Eating grains
on 7/6/02 12:16 PM, Marja at marja.viita luukku.com wrote:
)
) mysplum wrote:
)
)
)) ... and that certain grains are to be eaten on certain
)) days according to planetary alignment (G)!
)
) Please tell more about grain-eating.
Sharon: One of the "odd little Waldorf moments" for many parents who
unsuspectingly find themselves included in Steiner's religious movement, is
when a teacher recommends eating a certain grain on a certain day. We've
often talked about this on waldorf-critics. In my family's case, our
kindergarten teacher told us that a certain grain must be eaten on a certain
day of the week, which is why she was baking a particular type of bread on
the day she mentioned this. Unfortunately, I can't remember whether it was
Rye on Wednesday and I'm not at home at the moment. I don't have access to
my files, so I cannot tell you which grain on which day. If you have lots of
time you could search the archives, or perhaps Dan or Lisa can come up with
a list? Or ask a Waldorf teacher!
Did you know that certain colors are also supposed to be worn on certain
days! Lisa used to watch the parents and teachers at her school to see who
was wearing the Anthroposophically-correct colors before her family left
Waldorf. I was oblivious to all of this, I didn't even know in those days
that some people believe that colors heal!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 09:29:55 -0700
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: The beginnings
on 7/7/02 10:08 PM, mypo at epizito_alithea hotmail.com wrote:
) What online information is there regarding the beginnings of waldorf?
) The only information I have found is a brief paragraph about Emil Molt
) and the cigerate company the place and date of the first school.
)
Sharon: I doubt you will find what we are all searching for: ie the actual
system that Steiner used as his framework for Waldorf, or the real history
of Waldorf. I for one know that it would be impossible for Steiner to have
accomplished all that he did in one lifetime, without a little help from
others who had gone before. It just so happens that Steiner had stacks of
experience in saving the mysteries, setting up secret societies for adults,
and initiating adults, and not much experience with children at all. But the
Rosicrucians did have schools for children, and the Cathaerers and the
Waldensians....
Molt was an ardent follower of Steiner. The first Waldorf school was opened
in Stuttgart, the city in which Steiner's underground Rosicrucian Temple had
been built. Many of his followers would meet upstairs and did not know what
lay beneath them. Steiner had asked Carl Stockmeyer, the man who did the
architectual renderings for another Rosicrucian Temple that was built in
Mulsch, to gather the first Waldorf teachers. He was unsuccessful at this
task and so Steiner gathered the teachers himself. All but one were
Anthroposophists, and Stockmeyer was among the first teachers. (Once again,
I am away from my books so can't give you a list of all the teachers.)
I have a hunch that Steiner used a "lonely little mystery school in central
Europe" as his frame for Waldorf and embroidered upon it. I used to think
Waldorf was from around the 14-1500s or so, although I now believe it could
be much older. At the moment I'm trying to research the Cluny Monastery
which was started in 910 because the Cluniacs and especially the Cistercians
supposedly played a major role in Steiner's education according to E.
Pfeiffer. Steiner said that the Cistercian way of thinking is one of the
best preparations in history for Anthroposophy. The Cluny Monastery
supposedly used Biodynamic farming.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 13:17:54 -0700
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: The beginnings
on 7/7/02 10:08 PM, mypo at epizito_alithea hotmail.com wrote:
) Was there an exact syllabus [forgive the spelling] written? there is
) 'introduction to waldorf education' and 'spirt of education' [the titles
) are not exact, just from the top of my head but im sure you know the
) ones I mean].
Sharon: There is a Waldorf syllabus, although I don't think it's etched in
stone. Teachers are allowed some freedom as to how or when to present
certain lessons. If you look at the PLANS site, articles section, you will
find a list of the books that Waldorf teachers must read, virtually all are
by Steiner or Anthroposophists. Roy Wilkinson, who has been involved with
Waldorf/Anthro for over 60 years wrote a book entitled "The Spiritual Basis
of Steiner Education: The Waldorf School Approach" published by The
Anthroposophic Press 1996. His book will shed some light on some of the
deeper teachings and reasons for the teachings woven into the curriculum.
For example, he points out that in 3rd grade children build a house so that
they can learn that the body is the house of the spirit and that the spirit
can go in and out of the body. He also goes on at length about the magic
model: gnomes, sylphs, salamanders and undines. (My child wrote about this
in Geography, 3rd grade I think). She also studied elemental spirits in
first grade and drew pictures of gnomes mining in a metal mine. You can read
about this in Steiner's book entitled "Nature Spirits". If memory serves,
Wilkinson teaches that one of the child's first introductions to
reincarnation will be with a story about a worm transforming into a
butterfly. Later, in fifth grade, children will be passed through Steiner's
mystery training, when children will be taught about the spiritual evolution
of the Aryan in the guise of Indian, Persian, Greco-Roman,
Babylonian-Egyptian "history". My child never made it to the higher grades,
but I did have the opportunity to study the books of older children at her
school. I was amazed by the "history" lessons. For example, the lessons
would state religion as fact and would emphasize reincarnation. Often there
was a reference to this world not being "real".
Roy Wilkinson: "Although there may be fairies or nature spirits assigned to
this or that special feature using a variety of names, the usual
classification is to consider four types, corresponding to the four elements
- earth, water, air and fire. The names of the spirits are gnomes, undines,
sylphs and salamanders respectively. To be aware of them, the special
faculty of spiritual vision is necessary; otherwise we must accept the
information given to us by one who has this faculty" (Wilkinson, Roy 90 -
91. The Spiritual Basis of Steiner Education: The waldorf School Approach.
Anthroposophic Press 1996).
If you are interested, I can post more from Wilkinson on this topic of
elemental spirits because I happen to have that with me.
Why is the stance on computers and tv seen as an official
) waldorf endorsment [promoted as though it's a requirement like the
) different coloured class rooms] when steiner wasn't ever around when
) these things were invented!
Sharon: Good question (G)! Steiner was opposed to technology, for example he
went to great lengths to have a heater installed in a building outside of
the first Goetheanum so that "Ahrimanic forces" would not exist inside the
building. I think that Anthroposophists use the TV issue to appeal to
parents like me who are attracted to Waldorf because we think that Waldorf
promotes selective use. Instead we find that Waldorf opposes all TV, slides,
overhead projectors, computers, recorded music, even educational TV
programs, artistic children's films and documentaries. Keeping families away
from television and computers helps insure that *Waldorf* becomes a family's
identity. It helps create a sort of alienation where relating to the outside
world becomes more and more difficult. (This was what happened in my
family's case).
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 19:57:14 +0000
From: Marja (marja.viita luukku.com)
Subject: RE: Eating grains + colours for each day
mysplum wrote:
) Did you know that certain colors are also supposed to be worn on certain
) days! Lisa used to watch the parents and teachers at her school to see
) who
) was wearing the Anthroposophically-correct colors before her family left
) Waldorf. I was oblivious to all of this, I didn't even know in those
) days
) that some people believe that colors heal!
Anthros can always suprise me. I have never heard about those grains and
colours for each days (I have read 60 pcs of RS-books + 30 pcs other
anthro books). Could You tell also something more about colours of each
day?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 21:20:17 +0000
From: Marja (marja.viita luukku.com)
Subject: RE: Eating grains
mysplum wrote:
) on 7/6/02 12:16 PM, Marja at marja.viita luukku.com wrote:
)
PLANS-archive helped me to find the following link:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~busbi/chart.html
There is mentioned very interesting items. On other busbi-pages there
are lot of readings.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 16:04:29 -0700
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: RE: Eating grains
Marja wrote,
)PLANS-archive helped me to find the following link:
)http://www.xs4all.nl/~busbi/chart.html
)
)There is mentioned very interesting items. On other busbi-pages there
)are lot of readings.
Indeed. Notice the correspondences on that page include races. The
inner task of white people is "Seek high ideals, Find the way," while
the inner task of black people is "Seek connection with cosmic
rhythm."
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 19:04:06 -0700
From: walden (awaldenpond shaw.ca)
Subject: Re: Eating grains
: RE: Eating grains
) Marja wrote,
)
) )PLANS-archive helped me to find the following link:
) )http://www.xs4all.nl/~busbi/chart.html
) )
) )There is mentioned very interesting items. On other busbi-pages there
) )are lot of readings.
)
) Indeed. Notice the correspondences on that page include races. The
) inner task of white people is "Seek high ideals, Find the way," while
) the inner task of black people is "Seek connection with cosmic
) rhythm."
)
) -Dan Dugan
Walden:
And the "Red Indian" relationship to time is "Long term Past." Whites are
"Long term Future." Remembering the genocide thread from months ago. This
chart would be good for a study group if any Anthroposophists care to help
us here?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 15:40:18 +0930
From: Willow Firesong (Willow.Firesong creative-interweb.com)
Subject: Re: Eating grains
)Sharon wrote:
) )) ... and that certain grains are to be eaten on certain
) )) days according to planetary alignment (G)!
)
)on 7/6/02 12:16 PM, Marja at marja.viita luukku.com wrote:
) ) Please tell more about grain-eating.
At 08-07-02 08:51 AM Monday, Sharon wrote:
)Sharon: One of the "odd little Waldorf moments" for many parents who
)unsuspectingly find themselves included in Steiner's religious movement, is
)when a teacher recommends eating a certain grain on a certain day. We've
)often talked about this on waldorf-critics. In my family's case, our
)kindergarten teacher told us that a certain grain must be eaten on a certain
)day of the week, which is why she was baking a particular type of bread on
)the day she mentioned this.
I think that this may be another thing that appeals to the slightly
muddy-minded practicioners of alternative lifestyles, as opposed to the
ones with clear-cut goals and understanding of the choices that they're making.
Rotational diets have been around for a long time, and are actually a very
good idea for people with certain allergy and allergy-prone conditions
(increased exposure increases the risk of developing allergies to a given
food, for people with Leaky Gut (by which I mean intestinal permeability as
studied by Western Medicine as well as the alternative medical community)
and certain other chronic health problems), as the simple act of eating a
food only once every 3 or 4 days helps a lot in avoiding complications with
those conditions.
A lot of people find that kind of dietary change a daunting prospect,
especially at first, and so they find the use of pre-existing rotational
diet plans, drawn up by various so-called experts (ranging from real
nutritionists and experienced allergy-sufferers who put together cookbooks
and meal plans, to quacks peddling snake oil for a buck), to be a much
easier first step to take, much like the weight-loss dieters who find diet
plans with pre-determined menus easier to follow.
Since, for these people, there is a real and demonstrable benefit in
following a rotational diet plan, REGARDLESS of its source or nature (as
long as their nutritional needs are met), there's the risk that the easily
observable beneficial results will be attributed to the underlying belief
system, and not to their having simply hit on a fairly basic permutation of
foods for health (in the face of these particular health problems). This
leads to generalizations about what works, and for what reasons, that are
likely to be highly suspect.
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 777
-- Topica Digest --
Re: Eating grains
By mysplum earthlink.net
Re: Eating grains
By Gary GoodWinter.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 08:20:25 -0700
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Eating grains
) : RE: Eating grains
)
)
)) Marja wrote,
))
))) PLANS-archive helped me to find the following link:
))) http://www.xs4all.nl/~busbi/chart.html
)))
))) There is mentioned very interesting items. On other busbi-pages there
Sharon: Thanks Marja! *Great* find!!!!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 09:23:21 -0400
From: Gary Bonhiver (Gary goodwinter.com)
Subject: Re: Eating grains
on 7/9/02 11:20 AM, mysplum at mysplum earthlink.net wrote:
)
)
)) : RE: Eating grains
))
))
))) Marja wrote,
)))
)))) PLANS-archive helped me to find the following link:
)))) http://www.xs4all.nl/~busbi/chart.html
))))
)))) There is mentioned very interesting items. On other busbi-pages there
)
) Sharon: Thanks Marja! *Great* find!!!!
We already have a link to this page on the PLANS site (links section),
though it only references the "chart". I may add a link to the home page as
well, since it goes into detail about the various aspects of the chart.
Thanks, Marja.
...Gary Bonhiver
www.waldorfcritics.org Webmaster
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 778
-- Topica Digest --
By lastnamesmith hotmail.com
Re: Thanks PLANS
By snell gv.net
Smith family
By dan dandugan.com
Welcome Smith Family
By deerone mindspring.com
Re: Welcome Smith Family
By sandra.schlick balcab.ch
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:36:48 +0000
From: "lastname smith" (lastnamesmith hotmail.com)
hello worthy cult investigators,
we have accessed heaps of stuff in your archives and like heaps of others
are sure you know we appreciate your existence.
The info has been invaluable to the end of a three year search for our
children's difficulties in life, school and relationships
All of them are ex steiner and bear the scars as those before them and
unfortunately those that will come after them do
we are writing to say thanks to all who have contributed to waldorf
critics... a little voice that needs to get a lot louder....
the smiths.
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:19:13 -0700
From: Debra Snell (snell gv.net)
Subject: Re: Thanks PLANS
)hello worthy cult investigators,
)
)we have accessed heaps of stuff in your archives and like heaps of
)others are sure you know we appreciate your existence.
)
)The info has been invaluable to the end of a three year search for
)our children's difficulties in life, school and relationships
)
)All of them are ex steiner and bear the scars as those before them
)and unfortunately those that will come after them do
)
)we are writing to say thanks to all who have contributed to waldorf
)critics... a little voice that needs to get a lot louder....
)
)
)the smiths.
You are welcome! Glad we are here for you. Our voices will only
become a choir when everyone joins. Hope you stick around and help
make our little voices louder!
Debra
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:35:59 -0700
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Smith family
The Smith family, you wrote,
)hello worthy cult investigators,
)
)we have accessed heaps of stuff in your archives and like heaps of
)others are sure you know we appreciate your existence.
Thanks for the support.
)The info has been invaluable to the end of a three year search for
)our children's difficulties in life, school and relationships
)
)All of them are ex steiner and bear the scars as those before them
)and unfortunately those that will come after them do
)
)we are writing to say thanks to all who have contributed to waldorf
)critics... a little voice that needs to get a lot louder....
)
)the smiths.
I'm sorry to hear your children were hurt by their Waldorf
experience. What happened?
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 18:38:06 -0400
From: "Karen Sandburg" (deerone mindspring.com)
Subject: Welcome Smith Family
Welcome Smith Family! And congratulations on finding your way out of
Waldorf! Many of us would like to hear your story (and it feels cathartic
to tell it). I joined the Waldorf Survivors group, which you must join
separately, and it is a more private site. That site is where I aired my
tale of woe, but many have told their stories on this site.
----- Original Message -----
From: "zacariah smith" (lastnamesmith hotmail.com)
To: (waldorf-critics topica.com)
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 12:36 PM
) hello worthy cult investigators,
)
) we have accessed heaps of stuff in your archives and like heaps of others
) are sure you know we appreciate your existence.
)
) The info has been invaluable to the end of a three year search for our
) children's difficulties in life, school and relationships
)
) All of them are ex steiner and bear the scars as those before them and
) unfortunately those that will come after them do
)
) we are writing to say thanks to all who have contributed to waldorf
) critics... a little voice that needs to get a lot louder....
)
)
)
) the smiths.
)
) _________________________________________________________________
) Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
) http://www.hotmail.com
)
)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:09:33 +0100
From: Sandra Schlick (sandra.schlick balcab.ch)
Subject: Re: Welcome Smith Family
Hello and welcome from me
I also made it to get away from a Waldorf School but this is long ago. So, I'm
interested to hear what made you leaving this school. I would be glad to know
your story!
Regards
Sandra
Karen Sandburg wrote:
) Welcome Smith Family! And congratulations on finding your way out of
) Waldorf! Many of us would like to hear your story (and it feels cathartic
) to tell it). I joined the Waldorf Survivors group, which you must join
) separately, and it is a more private site. That site is where I aired my
) tale of woe, but many have told their stories on this site.
)
) ----- Original Message -----
) From: "zacariah smith" (lastnamesmith hotmail.com)
) To: (waldorf-critics topica.com)
) Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 12:36 PM
)
) ) hello worthy cult investigators,
) )
) ) we have accessed heaps of stuff in your archives and like heaps of others
) ) are sure you know we appreciate your existence.
) )
) ) The info has been invaluable to the end of a three year search for our
) ) children's difficulties in life, school and relationships
) )
) ) All of them are ex steiner and bear the scars as those before them and
) ) unfortunately those that will come after them do
) )
) ) we are writing to say thanks to all who have contributed to waldorf
) ) critics... a little voice that needs to get a lot louder....
) )
) )
) )
) ) the smiths.
) )
) ) _________________________________________________________________
) ) Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
) ) http://www.hotmail.com
) )
) )
)
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 779
-- Topica Digest --
Re: Eating grains + colours for each day
By mysplum earthlink.net
our story
By lastnamesmith hotmail.com
Re: our story
By sandra.schlick balcab.ch
How to change my e-mail-address?
By marja.viita luukku.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:27:45 -0700
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Eating grains + colours for each day
on 7/8/02 12:57 PM, Marja at marja.viita luukku.com wrote:
)
) Anthros can always suprise me. I have never heard about those grains and
) colours for each days (I have read 60 pcs of RS-books + 30 pcs other
) anthro books). Could You tell also something more about colours of each
) day?
Sharon: There are so many layers to Anthroposophy, if you keep lifting the
layers you will find your way deeper and deeper into Steiner's mysteries.
Behind the planets there are spiritual beings of various kinds. The planets
are merely the external expression of spiritual beings. These beings are
what cause the planets to rotate. These beings have special forces that
man's astral and I bodies drink while they fly around in the cosmos during
sleep. The spirit world is comprised of colors. Colors are the outer
expression of spiritual beings. Color is the organ of the spiritual world.
Spirit beings come to earth on the wings of color. By wearing certain colors
on certain days, one draws down certain beings and their forces. The "logic"
is that if you master all the correct correspondences, and everyone wears
the right color on the right day, you will bring down the forces that will
help the earth and man evolve towards Steiner's prophetic future. Color is a
way to access the forces of certain spirit beings. Color heals. Refer to the
chart you posted to see what the planetary colors are.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:01:27 +0000
From: "lastname smith" (lastnamesmith hotmail.com)
Subject: our story
thanks everyone for the warm welcome and curiosity regarding our story.
It is unfortunately a long one and still unfolding, so for our children's
sake at this point, we can only give sketchy details.
They are still raw and sore from their Waldorf experience and for them the
implications in all areas of their lives has been quite devastating and
frightening.
They are not who or what they thought they were and then neither is anybody
else in their lives.
The list of psychological symptoms of cult trauma on CAIC's site
www.caic.org.au discovered a month ago by a persistant carer was the end of
a long search for all of these behaviours manifesting in our kids.
This is their second marriage and the new parent began the process four
years ago by recommending their removal from the school. However, the
extreme effect of the school program and their, dare we say it, brain
washing prevented disclosure of the true depth or cult effect.
Clinical depression, suicidality, paralysis, uncontrolled and unexplained
crying, anger , aggression etc etc etc . To the max, all of the time.
It is only since a large distance was placed between them and where the
story began that disclosure has begun, as well as a desperate need to help
the children as life has been incredibly difficult for all members of the
family with unbelievable stress levels and reactionary behaviour without a
seeming cause.
so despite psychologists, doctors, therapists, discussions, questions,
behaviour modifications that normally work, time,energy, etc. etc. we were
at a loss until a desperate prayer was answered by the words "cult -
busting"
The fog cleared a lot as more and more info was gathered and the relativity
between our experience and the experiences of other families with loved ones
and clients became incredibly close, like ahah! at last! we think we have
some answers.
Anyway, we are talking about 10 years of Waldorf schooling and involvement
by one parent and the children, plus a half convinced other parent.
At the least it was misrepresentation, deceit and confidence trickery. At
the worst it has had life threatening and dire consequences, here we hope
that their belief in the way that karma operates will be on their doorstep
in kind.
The depth of betrayal is unknown, the confusion, disorientation and
disassociation at last subsiding, the chance for a "normal life" beginning.
At this point the ghosts are still haunting our family and the paranoia is
strong and the threat of reprisal very real, as I said, we are just new out
of the bonds of the thought programming and con artistry, the shock is still
new , the realisations still abounding.
Our greatest disbelief is probably that a philosophy clairvoyantly inspired
nearly 100 years ago has been literally replicated and applied to this
century as a spiritual science under the guise of an education for
unsuspecting minds, who were told not to read any Steiner books because they
were too hard for theme to understand by the way, is laughable only were
not laughing at the moment.
our kids went mainstream education 3 years ago with varied success and
incredible difficulty because they couldn't make head nor tale of the math
and science, now we know why! Even more incredulous is the fact that
steiner proports that the teacher needs to be Yoda(star wars- and 800 years
old wisdom) to acheive success with their students or at least a
Psychiatrist with a masters in education as well as having the spiritual
knowledge of the Pope were let loose on our kids with two years of occult
science and no proof of experience or ability required.
Even psychiatrists must see a psychiatrist to continue practice.
gees its good to ventilate , but i think we have given an all too familiar
picture.
there's more, heaps more but not yet, the kids recovery of their true selves
and their explanations to themselves about why they became who they did so
they can re create themselves into happy balanced loved and loving
individuals is the priority.
All we can say really (for Star Trek fans) that the Borg could even learn
from waldorf teaching and that we are species 8472.
They have for some reason, ended up with a seperation in their
thought-feeling reactions. They complain of a disconnectedness between their
thoughts, feelings and actions, we have certainly observed this to be true.
This has been sent with their ok.
Kind regards,
The Smith Family
psychologists
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:16:56 +0100
From: Sandra Schlick (sandra.schlick balcab.ch)
Subject: Re: our story
Dear Smiths
I understand what you are going through, as I did lots of similar experience.
What helped me besides than catching up with "real" live, like normal school
and "normal" people, was to remember facts. Simple things like being made a
right hander as I was originally a left hander, like physikal punishment, like
to be forced to eat things I experienced as very disgusting, eating until I had
to vomish, lots of dark things, but facts. All the feelings you have must
circulate around lots of little things, words, action, which you understand as
wrong for you or your children.
I hope, you and your family will soon heal from all the bad traumas you went
through.
Sandra
zacariah smith wrote:
) thanks everyone for the warm welcome and curiosity regarding our story.
)
) It is unfortunately a long one and still unfolding, so for our children's
) sake at this point, we can only give sketchy details.
)
) They are still raw and sore from their Waldorf experience and for them the
) implications in all areas of their lives has been quite devastating and
) frightening.
)
) They are not who or what they thought they were and then neither is anybody
) else in their lives.
)
) The list of psychological symptoms of cult trauma on CAIC's site
) www.caic.org.au discovered a month ago by a persistant carer was the end of
) a long search for all of these behaviours manifesting in our kids.
)
) This is their second marriage and the new parent began the process four
) years ago by recommending their removal from the school. However, the
) extreme effect of the school program and their, dare we say it, brain
) washing prevented disclosure of the true depth or cult effect.
)
) Clinical depression, suicidality, paralysis, uncontrolled and unexplained
) crying, anger , aggression etc etc etc . To the max, all of the time.
)
) It is only since a large distance was placed between them and where the
) story began that disclosure has begun, as well as a desperate need to help
) the children as life has been incredibly difficult for all members of the
) family with unbelievable stress levels and reactionary behaviour without a
) seeming cause.
)
) so despite psychologists, doctors, therapists, discussions, questions,
) behaviour modifications that normally work, time,energy, etc. etc. we were
) at a loss until a desperate prayer was answered by the words "cult -
) busting"
)
) The fog cleared a lot as more and more info was gathered and the relativity
) between our experience and the experiences of other families with loved ones
) and clients became incredibly close, like ahah! at last! we think we have
) some answers.
)
) Anyway, we are talking about 10 years of Waldorf schooling and involvement
) by one parent and the children, plus a half convinced other parent.
)
) At the least it was misrepresentation, deceit and confidence trickery. At
) the worst it has had life threatening and dire consequences, here we hope
) that their belief in the way that karma operates will be on their doorstep
) in kind.
)
) The depth of betrayal is unknown, the confusion, disorientation and
) disassociation at last subsiding, the chance for a "normal life" beginning.
)
) At this point the ghosts are still haunting our family and the paranoia is
) strong and the threat of reprisal very real, as I said, we are just new out
) of the bonds of the thought programming and con artistry, the shock is still
) new , the realisations still abounding.
)
) Our greatest disbelief is probably that a philosophy clairvoyantly inspired
) nearly 100 years ago has been literally replicated and applied to this
) century as a spiritual science under the guise of an education for
) unsuspecting minds, who were told not to read any Steiner books because they
) were too hard for theme to understand by the way, is laughable only were
) not laughing at the moment.
)
) our kids went mainstream education 3 years ago with varied success and
) incredible difficulty because they couldn't make head nor tale of the math
) and science, now we know why! Even more incredulous is the fact that
) steiner proports that the teacher needs to be Yoda(star wars- and 800 years
) old wisdom) to acheive success with their students or at least a
) Psychiatrist with a masters in education as well as having the spiritual
) knowledge of the Pope were let loose on our kids with two years of occult
) science and no proof of experience or ability required.
)
) Even psychiatrists must see a psychiatrist to continue practice.
)
) gees its good to ventilate , but i think we have given an all too familiar
) picture.
)
) there's more, heaps more but not yet, the kids recovery of their true selves
) and their explanations to themselves about why they became who they did so
) they can re create themselves into happy balanced loved and loving
) individuals is the priority.
)
) All we can say really (for Star Trek fans) that the Borg could even learn
) from waldorf teaching and that we are species 8472.
)
) They have for some reason, ended up with a seperation in their
) thought-feeling reactions. They complain of a disconnectedness between their
) thoughts, feelings and actions, we have certainly observed this to be true.
)
) This has been sent with their ok.
)
) Kind regards,
) The Smith Family
)
) psychologists
)
) _________________________________________________________________
) Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
) http://www.hotmail.com
)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 19:59:23 +0000
From: Marja (marja.viita luukku.com)
Subject: How to change my e-mail-address?
My e-mail address has changed. I tried to change my address also on
Subscription Options. I couldn't do that. It was possible to change my
name but not possible to change my address. That is Mystical and Occult.
"Subscription Options
Please select how, when, and where you would like to receive mail from
this list. Required fields are marked in red."
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 780
-- Topica Digest --
karma & reincarnation for teachers
By dan dandugan.com
Re: Are Waldorf teachers Anthroposophists?
By dan dandugan.com
Re: karma & reincarnation for teachers
By awaldenpond shaw.ca
Re: karma & reincarnation for teachers
By willow.firesong creative-interweb.com
Re: karma & reincarnation for teachers
By awaldenpond shaw.ca
Re: karma & reincarnation for teachers
By willow.firesong creative-interweb.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:28:04 -0700
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: karma & reincarnation for teachers
Well, here it is from the horse's mouth folks, despite all the
denials we've heard about Steiner's theory of karma and reincarnation
having any application in Waldorf classrooms. A Waldorf teacher
training college in New Zealand summarizes on their web page:
http://www.taruna.gen.nz/index.php?pid=28
Karma and Reincarnation for Teachers
(Rewritten notes of a lecture given by Robin Bacchus to the
Fellowship Rudolf Steiner School Teachers' Conference in Hastings)
At the beginning of this conference, I wish to establish an overview
of Karma and Reincarnation and the way it may be helpful in the realm
of education and the working of teachers with their pupils.
Various individuals have known about reincarnation in the past, even
if it has not generally been accepted, as is shown by the epitaph
that Benjamin Franklin wrote for himself while still at the age of 23.
The Body
of
Benjamin Franklin
Printer
Like the cover of an old book,
Its contents worn out
And stripped of its lettering and gilding,
Lies here, food for worms.
But the work shall not be lost,
For it will, as he believed, appear once more,
In a new and more elegant edition,
Revised and corrected
by
The Author
Today a sizeable proportion of the population is not comfortable with
the idea of reincarnation. 'Thought of the Day' published in the
Herald Tribune last week:
"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a
thousand invisible threads, and along their sympathetic fibres, as
actions as causes and return to us as results."
- Herman Melville
On the ubiquitous Internet one can find advice on The Law of Karma:
'For every action we perform there will be a reaction (fruit) equal
in nature and degree. Do a little good action; this will create joy
and happiness to a fellow human being or other creature. Sooner or
later, in a few seconds or lifetimes, you will enjoy the fruit of
that action and reap the little joy you had sown before. The greater
the sacrifice and goodness of the action, the greater the fruit you
will receive. Similarly, a bad or mean action, which inflicts pain
and suffering to other beings, will bring equivalent results to the
doer.'
Spiritual research into Karma and Reincarnation was a major goal in
Rudolf Steiner's life but one that he was only able to follow fully
in the last few years of his life because there were not ears to hear
earlier.
Threefold Man
As the human being has three aspects to his being: body, soul and
spirit, so are three major laws of being.
Physical Body and Heredity
The Law of Heredity governs the body and the relation between the
succeeding generations. The body is subject to birth and death. It is
a summary of the past.
Our physical body carries our racial characteristics. It is worth
noting that humanity is but one species whereas the animal forms and
species are manifold. Our life (etheric) body carries the family
characteristics that we inherit from our forebears. Our sentient
(astral) body carries the tendencies, dispositions and passions that
we inherit from our parents. In our first seven years of life we
strive to make our inherited physical body our own possession and
feverish illnesses may arise within and as part of this struggle. In
the next seven years, the middle years of childhood between the
change of teeth and puberty, we strive to make our inherited life
body our own. Similarly in the third seven years we strive to develop
our own dispositions and passions and cast off our inheritance, hence
the frequent struggle between an adolescent and his/her parents.
Soul and Karma
The Law of Karma works with consequence, cause and effect in the
realm of the soul. The soul is the meeting ground of the physical
world and the spiritual worlds. Our inner self meets the experiences
of the outer world, our environment, in the present. Karma is
'activity that has become destiny'. In each lifetime we develop our
personality which is dependent on and held together in our 'memory'.
Our biography is full of meetings, of opportunities, that arise from
previous encounters. However we are under no compulsion, indeed we
are free in that moment, to act or not act in true fulfilment of the
potential of these meetings. If issues are not recognised or resolved
they stay in our karma for a future date.
Spirit and Reincarnation
The Law of Reincarnation works in the realm of the spirit. The spirit
carries the immortal seed for the future, our individuality that
encompasses the abilities, faculties and skills acquired through
striving, overcoming struggles in life. Our individuality (or
entelechy) follows a sequence of earth lives (incarnations) where the
faculties of one life are metamorphosed into forces and talents for
the next. Usually the spirit waits until the evolution of mankind and
the conditions on the earth have sufficiently changed before seeking
another incarnation and the challenges that it will bring.
Sleep
Sleep is sometimes called "the little death". In sleep there is a
partial separation of the soul spiritual from the life body. During
sleep we work over again the events of the previous day - they may
appear in our dreams or cause us restless sleep - and a subconscious
adjustment is begun. In the morning we must reconnect with the
activities of the previous day as a precondition for continuing.
Memory is essential for establishing one's identity - if one forgets
everything and nothing can be recalled then one does not know who one
is! Our biography is a sequence of conscious memories interconnected
by mysterious periods of unconsciousness sleep, where perhaps we
consult with our guardian angel about our life's aims and tasks.
Death
Death is sometimes called "the big sleep". Gradually our various
bodies separate and dissolve into the wider cosmos. On death our
physical body breathes its last breath and begins the process of
decay as its hallowed substance is passed over to the earth. The
etheric body, astral body and ego have separated from the physical
body.
Over the next three days (before the funeral, during the wake), as
the etheric body separates from the astral body and ego, one
experiences a panorama of one's whole life, from birth to death,
spread out before one. The etheric body dissolves into the world
etheric.
Kamaloca
Next a much longer process, Kamaloca, takes place - the separation of
the astral body from the ego - in the lunar or moon sphere. In this
sphere we experience "burning desires" because we no longer have
physical organs to satisfy our cravings, urges and passions to which
we have become accustomed or habituated during life. We also
experience our past life in reverse, unfolding from the moment of
death back to our first memories. We also experience all our actions
in reverse - as others experienced them. When we once inflicted pain
on some person or creature then we now suffer that pain; conversely
we also experience the warm appreciation for our kind deeds and love.
For those who led a self-centred life and were cruel to those around
them this can be truly a time of torment and 'hell', a time to repent
and resolve to make amends and improve. This period lasts about as
long as the time we slept on earth. We can not change the past but we
can develop impulses for the next life. Here, with our guardian
angel's help, we make intentions to make good every thought, feeling
and deed that lowered us.
The Spiritual Planetary Spheres
In the realm of Mercury, the Archangels school us, that is our
eternal spirit being or ego, in an intimate understanding of why
things are as they are, to accept our destiny.
Next in the realm of Venus, the Archai help us to develop a religious
attitude towards our future tasks and intentions.
In the supersensible Sun realm, the Elohim connect us with new souls
we will meet in the next life. We also discard the spiritual head
form of our last incarnation and fashion a new head form by
metamorphosing the spiritual forms of the rest of our body. [Rudolf
Steiner indicates that our past blood circulation system
metamorphoses into our next nervous system, the liver into the brain,
the kidney into the eyes, the gall and spleen into the ears, lungs
into the scalp.]
As we pass through the outer supersensible planetary realms we
receive further schooling from the higher Hierarchies on their plans
for human evolution which we are free to adopt in our time of
incarnation.
As we pass the spiritual midnight hour and return to earth, drawn to
another incarnation we build up the spiritual forces to create the
new body and the new situation we need to carry out our intentions in
our next life. In the Mars sphere we build the larynx, our organ of
speech, of the word. [Note the martial power of Hitler and Mussolini
in their ability to harangue crowds.] In the Sun sphere we build our
heart forces. In the Venus sphere we connect with our intended
specific family. In the Mercury sphere we connect with the race and
language of our intended incarnation. In the Moon sphere, nearest to
the earth, in the months before our birth, we determine whether we
will physically be male or female and gather the appropriate forces.
And so we arrive at a new birth.
Evolution
The goals of the guiding spiritual Hierarchies for the evolution of
humanity are that we develop and become independent beings freely
able to express love to the highest degree. Our ability to become
free is dependent on the strengthening opposition of the retarded
beings, Lucifer and Ahriman.
Lucifer or the Devil
Lucifer would like humanity to remain in spirit as half-developed
angels, i.e. to not develop any further. He tempts us to stay as we
are - to be satisfied with the present moment (cf. Faust), to bask in
the glory of past achievements and not strive towards any further
stages of evolution. He inspires the beauty and creativity of the
Arts.
Each great civilisation begins with Luciferic enthusiasm - Lucifer
enters into human souls and out of this springs the wishes and
aspirations, ideals, enthusiasm, desire for happiness, the
accomplishments of the Arts, but also the injurious desires -
egotistical impulses, greed, arrogance, etc.
Ahriman or Satan
Ahriman would like humanity to remain on the earth and not to return
to the spirit worlds for further guidance and development before
reincarnating with new impulses. He wishes to create heaven on earth.
He would like to regulate, control and define so that the future is
pre-defined with no creativity. He thrives on accuracy and exactness,
which is the essence of the Sciences.
After each age of civilisation has become established under the
guidance of Lucifer, Ahriman, with his cleverness, joins in and
spoils Lucifer's handiwork. He destroys it, sets it into systems,
laws and regulations so that it grinds to halt. (On a smaller scale,
just follow the progress of "Tomorrow's Schools" from grand ideal to
bureaucratic regulation.) Eventually Lucifer makes a new start,
elsewhere.
Rudolf Steiner said of this: "As death is the karmic fulfilment of
birth; so Ahriman is the karmic fulfilment of Lucifer."
Man and Woman
We may notice that women's soul tendencies are towards the emotional
and the psychic whilst men's are towards intellectuality and
materialism. Women experience life to a more profound depth of soul
whereas men may have richer, more scientific experiences, which
remain more superficial and do not affect his soul so deeply.
Women retain intuitive spirituality and flexibility. Men's inner
being penetrates matter more thoroughly and his brain is more
intractable and rigid.
Women's deeper soul experience in one life leads them to seek a
deeper penetration into matter in the next life, which is to
experience life in a male body. Men seek to incarnate less deeply
into matter, which is to find a female incarnation for their next
life. Rudolf Steiner indicates that since Lemuria we have alternately
taken male then female incarnations. Thus "Man is the karmic
fulfilment of Woman" and vice versa so that an overall balancing is
achieved.
Illnesses
A soul that in one lifetime is tempted by or permeated with the
luciferic element needs to be corrected in the following lifetime.
Experiencing a tendency to illness often brings this about.
For example, an excessive inwardness, egotism and brooding,
uncharitableness and an unloving attitude towards others in one life
leads, in the next life, to pox diseases with skin outbreaks and
disfigurement 'representing, as it were, a desire to come out of
oneself. The earlier unloving attitude is thus overcome at a physical
level and the "I" now receives strength to stand in a new
relationship with its surroundings.' Smallpox is such an illness in a
severe form. Chicken pox and measles are less severe forms.
In the other direction: 'A life that was powerfully affected by
emotions will dispose a person towards an illness, which is wrestled
with entirely on the inside of the body. It is as if the forces which
previously expressed themselves in explosive outbursts are now
compressed within and have to be overcome there.' Diphtheria is such
an illness in a severe form that grips into the inner organs thus
helping the ego get a grip on the body. Scarlet fever and glandular
fever are less severe forms.
Karmic Consequences
What can we as teachers [and parents] do when we become aware of the
karmic consequences of certain conditions and attitudes as indicated
by Rudolf Steiner?
Previous Life Next Life
Attentiveness and interest in the world Well-formed organs, strong physical
body, thick bushy hair, choleric
temperament.
Lack of interest in the wider world Poorly formed organs,
rickets, bow legs,
(e.g. being secluded in a nunnery) baldness, melancholic temperament.
Ability to learn languages Ability to make unprejudiced judgements
(mobile etheric life body)
Excessive acquisitiveness Tendency to infectious illnesses
Illusionary self image, delusions Measles, scarlet fever
Uncharitableness Small pox
Lack of interest in music Asthma
"Therefore it is a blessing for children to point things to them so
that they can look more carefully. Arouse their interest."
Hatred -) life of sorrows -) dulled consciousness, mental illness, clumsiness
"Therefore give children an opportunity to do deeds out of love."
No sense for facts -) tendency to lies -) defective organs -) frivolousness
"Therefore develop a sense in the children for facts and the truth."
Difficult Karma can be healed by human love; it does not have to be
left for the afflicted one to suffer alone. Indeed, we should not be
able to rest in peace when we know another is suffering. It is the
task of teacher in continuing and carrying out the work of the third
Hierarchy to help remove the obstacles that lie in the children's
paths, by recognising the karmic implications of what they observe in
the children standing before them and doing what they can to help.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 16:41:39 -0700
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Cc: waldorf-critics topica.com
Subject: Re: Are Waldorf teachers Anthroposophists?
Colleen Turrell, you wrote to the SJU Waldorf discussion list,
)I'm interested in knowing what all of you think, and how you feel,
)about the difference between "general Waldorf culture" (help me out
)please if you have a better term for this) as expressed physically in
)the schools, and the underlying philosophy of Anthroposophy.
I'm not allowed to post on that list, Colleen, but I can't resist
chiming in. I'll answer you here on the waldorf-critics list. Please
subscribe if you want to see subsequent discussion on w-c. The
culture of Waldorf schools -is- Anthroposophy, but it is more like a
religious sect than a philosophy.
)I don't know if I'm phrasing the question well enough, so I better
)give you some background so you understand what I am really asking.
)
)Basically, I have huge, tremendous support for general Waldorf
)values. Art, movement, poetry, song, music, spiritualism,
)environmentalism, back-to-basics, grounding in culteral history,
)meaning in myth, and so on. However, certain parts of Steiner's
)actual teachings just don't fit in with my own worldview at all.
Colleen, you're falling for an attractive facade. Some of those
things that you list as Waldorf values aren't what they seem to be
when named. Art, for example, is very limited in Waldorf. Both themes
and media are rigidly prescribed by age group. Music is the same way,
only the "right" kind of instruments and the "right" kind of tunes.
Spiritualism, however, you'll find in abundance. Environmentalism is
there as ideology, but not as a science. If "back-to-basics" includes
reading, you will find the Waldorf program seriously retarded.
Cultural history is restricted to the sequence of cultures that the
Theosophists defined as the evolution of the Aryan race.
)The tricky thing is that I am planning to become a Waldorf teacher.
)I'm not concerned about the children, the parents, or my teaching
)practice. But I am concerned that my unorthodox views could mean that
)I am not accepted by the teachers.
You are right to be concerned. In a Waldorf school there are two
classes of teachers. Those who are committed to Anthroposophy, and
agree with the ruling clique, become members of the "college of
teachers," and make -all- of the decisions having to do with
teaching. Other teachers are regarded as being on a path approaching
Anthroposophy, and are helped along the way. Criticism of the system,
or suggestions as to how it should be improved, will be regarded with
patronizing patience at best, or shunning and backbiting at the worst.
)Are any of you teachers out there willing to share your thoughts on this?
)
)--
)Mark & Colleen Turrell
)El Cerrito, California
You're asking good questions, keep investigating before you commit yourself.
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 17:59:27 -0700
From: walden (awaldenpond shaw.ca)
Subject: Re: karma & reincarnation for teachers
No - this cannot be right. Gotta be a misprint. Waldorf is not religious
and has nothing really to do with anthroposophy - it is non-sectarian - you
should read the majority of websites. Unless, I suppose, one *lives into
it* and they it is a path of understanding....
-Walden
Dan Dugan wrote:
) Well, here it is from the horse's mouth folks, despite all the
) denials we've heard about Steiner's theory of karma and reincarnation
) having any application in Waldorf classrooms. A Waldorf teacher
) training college in New Zealand summarizes on their web page:
)
) http://www.taruna.gen.nz/index.php?pid=28
)
) Karma and Reincarnation for Teachers
) (Rewritten notes of a lecture given by Robin Bacchus to the
) Fellowship Rudolf Steiner School Teachers' Conference in Hastings)
)
) At the beginning of this conference, I wish to establish an overview
) of Karma and Reincarnation and the way it may be helpful in the realm
) of education and the working of teachers with their pupils.
)
) Various individuals have known about reincarnation in the past, even
) if it has not generally been accepted, as is shown by the epitaph
) that Benjamin Franklin wrote for himself while still at the age of 23.
)
) The Body
) of
) Benjamin Franklin
) Printer
) Like the cover of an old book,
) Its contents worn out
) And stripped of its lettering and gilding,
) Lies here, food for worms.
) But the work shall not be lost,
) For it will, as he believed, appear once more,
) In a new and more elegant edition,
) Revised and corrected
) by
) The Author
)
) Today a sizeable proportion of the population is not comfortable with
) the idea of reincarnation. 'Thought of the Day' published in the
) Herald Tribune last week:
)
) "We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a
) thousand invisible threads, and along their sympathetic fibres, as
) actions as causes and return to us as results."
) - Herman Melville
)
) On the ubiquitous Internet one can find advice on The Law of Karma:
) 'For every action we perform there will be a reaction (fruit) equal
) in nature and degree. Do a little good action; this will create joy
) and happiness to a fellow human being or other creature. Sooner or
) later, in a few seconds or lifetimes, you will enjoy the fruit of
) that action and reap the little joy you had sown before. The greater
) the sacrifice and goodness of the action, the greater the fruit you
) will receive. Similarly, a bad or mean action, which inflicts pain
) and suffering to other beings, will bring equivalent results to the
) doer.'
)
) Spiritual research into Karma and Reincarnation was a major goal in
) Rudolf Steiner's life but one that he was only able to follow fully
) in the last few years of his life because there were not ears to hear
) earlier.
)
)
) Threefold Man
) As the human being has three aspects to his being: body, soul and
) spirit, so are three major laws of being.
)
) Physical Body and Heredity
)
) The Law of Heredity governs the body and the relation between the
) succeeding generations. The body is subject to birth and death. It is
) a summary of the past.
)
) Our physical body carries our racial characteristics. It is worth
) noting that humanity is but one species whereas the animal forms and
) species are manifold. Our life (etheric) body carries the family
) characteristics that we inherit from our forebears. Our sentient
) (astral) body carries the tendencies, dispositions and passions that
) we inherit from our parents. In our first seven years of life we
) strive to make our inherited physical body our own possession and
) feverish illnesses may arise within and as part of this struggle. In
) the next seven years, the middle years of childhood between the
) change of teeth and puberty, we strive to make our inherited life
) body our own. Similarly in the third seven years we strive to develop
) our own dispositions and passions and cast off our inheritance, hence
) the frequent struggle between an adolescent and his/her parents.
)
) Soul and Karma
)
) The Law of Karma works with consequence, cause and effect in the
) realm of the soul. The soul is the meeting ground of the physical
) world and the spiritual worlds. Our inner self meets the experiences
) of the outer world, our environment, in the present. Karma is
) 'activity that has become destiny'. In each lifetime we develop our
) personality which is dependent on and held together in our 'memory'.
) Our biography is full of meetings, of opportunities, that arise from
) previous encounters. However we are under no c