return to WCA Archive Index
-- Topica Digest --
Re: Motive and intent
By momof2gals mindspring.com
Re: Mike
By mysplum earthlink.net
Re: Hey Mike!
By mysplum earthlink.net
Re: Mike
By mhelsher cheshire.net
Re: Mike
By mhelsher cheshire.net
Re: academic curriculum
By coalesceus yahoo.com
Re: academic curriculum
By momof2gals mindspring.com
Re: academic curriculum
By alice.javanet rcn.com
Re: Mike
By mysplum earthlink.net
Re: Mike
By dan dandugan.com
Re: Mike
By awaldenpond shaw.ca
Re: academic curriculum
By snell gv.net
Re: academic curriculum
By awaldenpond shaw.ca
NNA press release 9/01
By dan dandugan.com
Re: academic curriculum
By Tjgarr859 aol.com
Re: Mike
By Diana.Winters worldnet.att.net
Re: Mike
By mysplum earthlink.net
Children and Spiritual Questing - was Re: Mike
By willow.firesong creative-interweb.com
Re: Children and Spiritual Questing -
By mysplum earthlink.net
Thank you to "Critics"
By jones9876 cs.com
fan mail
By dan dandugan.com
Re: fan mail
By Tjgarr859 aol.com
Re: Children and Spiritual Questing - was Re: Mike
By awaldenpond shaw.ca
hard times hit Anthroposophy, too
By dan dandugan.com
Waldorf Art
By awaldenpond shaw.ca
Florida court cancels voucher program
By dan dandugan.com
Anthroposophy for Beginners
By dan dandugan.com
Re: Anthroposophy for Beginners
By Diana.Winters worldnet.att.net
Re: Anthroposophy for Beginners
By dan dandugan.com
Re: More on Archangel Michael in Waldorf curriculum
By mysplum earthlink.net
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:26:21 -0400
From: "Lisa Ercolano" (momof2gals mindspring.com)
Subject: Re: Motive and intent
) THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
--MS_Mac_OE_3110826381_280910_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Dear Mike,
I am really impressed with your message below. Your sense of empathy and
compassion shine through, and I want to commend you for it.
You are not the only person here who find his or her compassion
"steamrolled" by fervent feelings and opinions. We all have that happen,
sometimes.
What's remarkable is that you not only noticed what was happening, but also
felt compelled to correct the situation.
Lisa
Debra
Recently I was e-mailed off list by an old d.o.f. and informed as to some of
your personal experience.
After much thought I have realized that my own motive and intent was to
cause pain and to basically piss people off. I owe you and the list an
apology. I'm sorry. Sometimes my ability to have compassion gets steamrolled
by my own fervent attitude about some issues.
Peace
Mike
==^================================================================
This email was sent to: momof2gals mindspring.com
EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dkiG.b1IpcO
Or send an email to: waldorf-critics-unsubscribe topica.com
T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^===============================================================
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:54:19 -0700
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Mike
Mike:
Yours in freedom of thought,
I'll toast to that.
Sharon: How can you have freedom of mind when the organization you support
does not freely share important information with you?! How can you be free
when there is an esoteric subtext and ulterior motive, of which you know
little about, that feeds the system and informs all school activities and
strivings? How can a child be free when a school is pumping them with
Anthroposophy without their understanding or parental sanction? At the very
least parents should understand that the school is based on Steiner's
religious theories. Parents need to understand that Waldorf is a preparation
for children's future reincarnations. To with-hold this kind of information
is ethically and morally wrong!
Whitehead: "[A]s practiced in the C.I.A., there is a 'need to know' element
in
the discourse-dynamics, even in a school! The Receptionist does not
'need to know' of the arcane spiritual background of geology teaching
in Class 6." (Whitehead, Alan. A Steiner Primary School?: A Creative
Approach: A Companion Volume to: A Steiner High School?; A Steiner
Homeschool?. Brunswick Heads, Australia: Golden Beetle Books, 1993,p 15)
-----
"[M]atters pertaining to the use of certain textual material
(thoughts, quotations, verses, etc.) which is available to the
Waldorf school teacher as an aid for his practical and inner
development as a teacher, are another example where a safeguard is
needed from indiscriminate sharing." (Leist, Manfred. Parent
Participation in the Life of a Waldorf School. Great Barrington, MA:
Association of Waldorf Schools of North America, 1987, p. 10)
-----
"The task that needs to be lovingly taken up, says Barkhoff, is utterly
concrete: convey information, supply visible impressions (e.g., the
architecture of a Rudolf Steiner House, the bread baked by children at a
school, or a tour of the top floor of the Goetheanum), or tell simple human
stories. Anthroposophy needs to be dealt with as a phenomenon. The press
agent has to convey the outer appearance of things rather than the essential
core. A deep esoteric background is necessary to make the essential core
comprehensible". ( Article entitled "Public Relations for the Spirit,"
Anthroposophy Worldwide 4/2000, p 12).
-----
Wilkinson: "It has been known for parents to say that they like the school,
but wish it were divorced from certain 'crazy' ideas which they may have
garnered, or which a teacher may have expressed. The Waldorf school and the
'crazy' ideas
are, however, inseparable. Waldorf schools would not exist if they were not
related to these ideas." (Roy Wilkinson, "The Spiritual Basis of Steiner
Education: The Waldorf School Approach," Sophia Books, Rudolf Steiner Press,
1996.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:09:07 -0700
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Hey Mike!
Sharon: Hey Mike, still wondering what you meant when you told Debra to quit
the Holy Grail complex? It seems as if Steiner is the one who had a Holy
Grail complex. He taught that the union of the Grail and Arthurian streams
in 869 formed the new Michael impulse. He believed that the 13th C was very
important in the history of humanity because it was when the cosmic service
of Michael was established.
(p 22 E.E. Pfeiffer, The task of the Arch Angel Michael).
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:00:08 -0400
From: "Mike Helsher" (mhelsher cheshire.net)
Subject: Re: Mike
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C23892.32BFB380
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Re: MikeHi Sharon,
I don' have time to respond right now. I hope to make some time for
it soon. I think your questions are very important.
Peace
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: mysplum
To: waldorf-critics topica.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: Mike
Mike:
Yours in freedom of thought,
I'll toast to that.
Sharon: How can you have freedom of mind when the organization
you support does not freely share important information with you?!
How can you be free when there is an esoteric subtext and ulterior
motive, of which you know little about, that feeds the system and
informs all school activities and strivings? How can a child be free
when a school is pumping them with Anthroposophy without their
understanding or parental sanction? At the very least parents should
understand that the school is based on Steiner's religious theories.
Parents need to understand that Waldorf is a preparation for
children's future reincarnations. To with-hold this kind of
information is ethically and morally wrong!
Whitehead: "[A]s practiced in the C.I.A., there is a 'need to
know' element in
the discourse-dynamics, even in a school! The Receptionist does not
'need to know' of the arcane spiritual background of geology teaching
in Class 6." (Whitehead, Alan. A Steiner Primary School?: A Creative
Approach: A Companion Volume to: A Steiner High School?; A Steiner
Homeschool?. Brunswick Heads, Australia: Golden Beetle Books, 1993,p 15)
-----
"[M]atters pertaining to the use of certain textual material
(thoughts, quotations, verses, etc.) which is available to the
Waldorf school teacher as an aid for his practical and inner
development as a teacher, are another example where a safeguard is
needed from indiscriminate sharing." (Leist, Manfred. Parent
Participation in the Life of a Waldorf School. Great Barrington, MA:
Association of Waldorf Schools of North America, 1987, p. 10)
-----
"The task that needs to be lovingly taken up, says Barkhoff, is
utterly concrete: convey information, supply visible impressions
(e.g., the architecture of a Rudolf Steiner House, the bread baked by
children at a school, or a tour of the top floor of the Goetheanum),
or tell simple human stories. Anthroposophy needs to be dealt with as
a phenomenon. The press agent has to convey the outer appearance of
things rather than the essential core. A deep esoteric background is
necessary to make the essential core comprehensible". ( Article
entitled "Public Relations for the Spirit," Anthroposophy Worldwide
4/2000, p 12).
-----
Wilkinson: "It has been known for parents to say that they like
the school, but wish it were divorced from certain 'crazy' ideas
which they may have garnered, or which a teacher may have expressed.
The Waldorf school and the 'crazy' ideas
are, however, inseparable. Waldorf schools would not exist if they were not
related to these ideas." (Roy Wilkinson, "The Spiritual Basis of Steiner
Education: The Waldorf School Approach," Sophia Books, Rudolf
Steiner Press,
1996.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 01:48:45 -0400
From: "Mike Helsher" (mhelsher cheshire.net)
Subject: Re: Mike
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C238FD.92C72040
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Re: Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: mysplum
To: waldorf-critics topica.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: Mike
Mike:
Yours in freedom of thought,
I'll toast to that.
Sharon: How can you have freedom of mind when the organization
you support does not freely share important information with you?!
How can you be free when there is an esoteric subtext and ulterior
motive, of which you know little about, that feeds the system and
informs all school activities and strivings? How can a child be free
when a school is pumping them with Anthroposophy without their
understanding or parental sanction? At the very least parents should
understand that the school is based on Steiner's religious theories.
Parents need to understand that Waldorf is a preparation for
children's future reincarnations. To with-hold this kind of
information is ethically and morally wrong!
Mike: Your questions are difficult to answer because they stem
into the very deep and controversial topic of human freedom. I
personally would hope not impose my ideas about this subject on
anyone. I will however share some brief experiences that have led me
to where I'm at today.
I think my perspective is bias because of my life experience to
date: About 15 years ago I did some comparative religious studies
coupled with the works of people like: C. G. Jung, Robert Bly (Iron
John) and especially Joseph Campbell. Campbell spent his life
studying myths and legends all around the world, throughout recorded
history. He found many similarities in the myths of completely
different cultures. This lead him to come to some interesting
conclusions about the nature of human consciousness. I also studied
Buddhism for a while, mostly as a cure for the dogmatic theism that
was handed to my as a child. I spent many years as a flaming agnostic
in a predominantly God orientated twelve Step fellowship (I survived
the Regan era Ollie North CIA drug war :) My wife and I went to a
therapist for a year and a half *before* we got married. I worked
with a group of friends for a year or so on John Bradshaw's PBS
series on "The Family". We also work shopped Bill Moyers se!
ries entitled "The Power of Myth". We attended a U.U. church for a
little while to expose our children to a variety of different
religious ideas. These are just a few examples. Suffuse it to say
that I have been a seeker of self knowledge for some time now. I've
always had what I call my 'anarchist inkling'; studying the huge
realm of human consciousness has given me a clue as to why. I've
never felt comfortable hanging out with any one group for to long.
Jung's work with dreams coupled with my studies of mythology has
caused me to lean toward a more metaphorical understanding of life.
This is why I am not freaked out by some of RS's ideas. We all fall
into a different aspect of consciousness when we sleep. Maybe RS
could access that while he was awake; who knows? I've found some of
his writings to be quite interesting thus far. I am especially
looking forward to studying "The Philosophy of Freedom". Don't get me
wrong, I have great interest in natural science as well i.e. "Steven
Hawkings Universe", but because of the subjective nature of
consciousness, science has only recently began to study it. I'm
looking forward to reading Alan Wallace's new book "The Taboo of
Subjectivity: Towards a new science of Consciousness". I may be
fooling myself, but I'm just not ready to accept that I am an
automaton made up of accidental biological activity. Nor am I willing
to have to much faith anything. The scope of life and of human con!
sciousness is to vast. And no human being or ideology, to my
knowledge, has yet to come up with a good answer to the question:
What is the source of life?
I'm writing an essay entitled "Gnosticism in Modern Form, A
Threshold to a Truly Humane Society" It will be derived from the
works of people like Alan Wallace, Noam Chompsky, Herman Hesse, C. G.
Jung, Joseph Campbell, a study of the Gnostic Gospels found in Egypt
in 1945, The Band U2, The Indigo Girls, and even Alanis Morissette.
It's part of an online Humanities program that I'm enrolled in that
revolves around the evolution of human consciousness, with an
emphasis on developing personal self knowledge. It involves the study
of people Like: Nietzsche, Rembrandt, Blake, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky,
De-Vinci, Goethe, Ben Franklin, Dante, Mozart, Plato, Lincoln and
even Rudolf Steiner, to name a few.
I think I'm reasonably well informed, and all of the questions
that I thought to ask were answered to my satisfaction. I think I
have a pretty good understanding what you call the "esoteric subtext
and ulterior motive", though I'm sure there is always more to learn.
I understand your concern for the subtle aspects of WE that are not
talked about to often. I think you make a good point about the ethics
and morality revolving around the disclosure of the Anthroposophical
underpinnings. Personally, I'm more concerned about the subtle
aspects of compulsory education these days. I like to call it
'conditioning for insertion into the consumer matrix'.
Maybe we can talk more about Freedom later, thats all the time I
have today.
Peace
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 00:09:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Coalesceus (coalesceus yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: academic curriculum
Your comments about how bad it was at your UK Waldorf
school got me wondering, especially about the
assertion expressed on this list that in Waldorf
schools, spelling exercises and instruction are not
healthy and are therefore discouraged.
So, I looked into the archives of the Waldorf
discussion list for the last five years, and extracted
the following bits of information. Since these are but
isolated snippets of information, I suspect that there
is a larger truth about the real relationship between
Waldorf education and spelling hidden between the
lines here:
1) The Detroit Waldorf School has an annual
school-wide spelling bee, and grade 4 (at least) has
one every six weeks or so;
2) The Detroit Waldorf School 4th grade classes have
spelling homework every Monday night, involving a mix
of drill and story problems. Spelling _rules_ are
emphasized;
3) With two exceptions (both exceptions being
parents), virtually 100% of the discussion over the
last 5 years revolving around spelling and spelling
bees was positive and supportive, by parents and
teachers, in the context of a Waldorf education. The
two exceptions mentioned supported the learning of
spelling, but did not support the competitive nature
of spelling bees;
4) The Shining Mountain Waldorf School gives weekly
spelling tests in the eighth grade;
5) The Aurora Waldorf School of Alaska includes
spelling exercises in the weekly homework, starting
with 4th grade;
6) The Austin Waldorf School hosts an annual spelling
bee at the fall Michaelmas festival;
7) The Austin Waldorf School fourth grade plays
"spelling baseball" (a kind of spelling game);
These examples were simply what was mentioned
explicitly in a posting during this period. I suspect
that similar orientations toward spelling are held by
more than just these few mentioned Waldorf schools.
It appears that spelling instruction and drill is very
much alive and well in Waldorf schools generally. I
wonder what else is alive and well in Waldorf schools
that might be getting a less than objective treatment
here?
Coalesceus
--- bea (mypostbox.formail virgin.net) wrote:
) Hello su
) My children were at the largest waldorf school in
) the uk, which is also the
) oldest in the english speaking world, so very
) established (75yrs).
) In my daughters class by class 5 there were only 2
) children who could read
) and write (only 13 in class) the parents had been
) furious about the
) situation since class 3, we were told that we had to
) "trust" this "trust" is
) very big in the waldorf schools, it comes in when
) there are no other
) answers.
) We were told by class 5 we would "catch up" with the
) outside world, this
) does NOT happen.
) Spelling is not taught, we were told further up the
) school (class 9) that to
) correct spelling is to stifle creativity, it also it
) seems does something
) to the etheric body. I have many ex-waldorf pupils
) in their early twenties
) around my house their spelling is atrocious, they
) all blame their own
) stupidity instead of the lack of teaching.
) You find a huge arrogance amongst many of the
) anthro's at the waldorf
) school, it is because they (think they) are in touch
) "with higher worlds"
) and therefore *know* what is right for the pupils,
) and we parents who aren't
) in touch are still somewhere down there scrabbling
) around dealing with
) unimportant things such as spelling etc when we
) should be looking at the big
) picture of life in terms of millions of millennia
) (past lives/future lives)
) bea
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 12:29:25 -0400
From: (momof2gals mindspring.com)
Subject: Re: academic curriculum
Lisa here: Glad to hear that some Waldorf schools actually try to teach their
students to spell! I am wondering, however, why we ought to praise schools for
doing what they are *supposed* to be doing, at the most basic level?
My older daughter attended a Waldorf school through the first half of fourth
grade, and they were just beginning to have spelling drills/quizzes in fourth.
Contrast that with the experience of my soon-to-be second grader at a
non-Waldorf school. Juliet had spelling tests twice a week -- a pretest and
then a post-test -- in first grade! The tests provided teachers and parents
and students with a very accurate measure of what the girls learned in the
course of a week (just note the improvement between the pre- and post-tests!)
and did not cause the girls undue pressure.
The bottom line when it comes to spelling is reading. Good and prolific
readers are often good spellers (though not always!).
If Waldorf schools really cared about literacy, they would not discourage
children from reading before the third grade. (And no one try to tell me they
don't discourage reading: we lived through it.)
Literacy is about a lot of things, especially fluency in reading and written
communication.
My family's experience in Waldorf -- and our experiences being exposed to
Waldorf "educated" kids here on this list and elsewhere -- leave me very
unimpressed with the results of Waldorf education.
On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 00:09:31 -0700 (PDT) Coalesceus (coalesceus yahoo.com)
wrote:
) Your comments about how bad it was at your UK
) Waldorf
) school got me wondering, especially about the
) assertion expressed on this list that in
) Waldorf
) schools, spelling exercises and instruction are
) not
) healthy and are therefore discouraged.
)
) So, I looked into the archives of the Waldorf
) discussion list for the last five years, and
) extracted
) the following bits of information. Since these
) are but
) isolated snippets of information, I suspect
) that there
) is a larger truth about the real relationship
) between
) Waldorf education and spelling hidden between
) the
) lines here:
)
) 1) The Detroit Waldorf School has an annual
) school-wide spelling bee, and grade 4 (at
) least) has
) one every six weeks or so;
)
) 2) The Detroit Waldorf School 4th grade classes
) have
) spelling homework every Monday night, involving
) a mix
) of drill and story problems. Spelling _rules_
) are
) emphasized;
)
) 3) With two exceptions (both exceptions being
) parents), virtually 100% of the discussion over
) the
) last 5 years revolving around spelling and
) spelling
) bees was positive and supportive, by parents
) and
) teachers, in the context of a Waldorf
) education. The
) two exceptions mentioned supported the learning
) of
) spelling, but did not support the competitive
) nature
) of spelling bees;
)
) 4) The Shining Mountain Waldorf School gives
) weekly
) spelling tests in the eighth grade;
)
) 5) The Aurora Waldorf School of Alaska includes
) spelling exercises in the weekly homework,
) starting
) with 4th grade;
)
) 6) The Austin Waldorf School hosts an annual
) spelling
) bee at the fall Michaelmas festival;
)
) 7) The Austin Waldorf School fourth grade plays
) "spelling baseball" (a kind of spelling game);
)
)
) These examples were simply what was mentioned
) explicitly in a posting during this period. I
) suspect
) that similar orientations toward spelling are
) held by
) more than just these few mentioned Waldorf
) schools.
)
) It appears that spelling instruction and drill
) is very
) much alive and well in Waldorf schools
) generally. I
) wonder what else is alive and well in Waldorf
) schools
) that might be getting a less than objective
) treatment
) here?
)
) Coalesceus
)
)
)
) --- bea wrote:
) ) Hello su
) ) My children were at the largest waldorf
) school in
) ) the uk, which is also the
) ) oldest in the english speaking world, so very
) ) established (75yrs).
) ) In my daughters class by class 5 there were
) only 2
) ) children who could read
) ) and write (only 13 in class) the parents had
) been
) ) furious about the
) ) situation since class 3, we were told that we
) had to
) ) "trust" this "trust" is
) ) very big in the waldorf schools, it comes in
) when
) ) there are no other
) ) answers.
) ) We were told by class 5 we would "catch up"
) with the
) ) outside world, this
) ) does NOT happen.
) ) Spelling is not taught, we were told further
) up the
) ) school (class 9) that to
) ) correct spelling is to stifle creativity, it
) also it
) ) seems does something
) ) to the etheric body. I have many ex-waldorf
) pupils
) ) in their early twenties
) ) around my house their spelling is atrocious,
) they
) ) all blame their own
) ) stupidity instead of the lack of teaching.
) ) You find a huge arrogance amongst many of the
) ) anthro's at the waldorf
) ) school, it is because they (think they) are
) in touch
) ) "with higher worlds"
) ) and therefore *know* what is right for the
) pupils,
) ) and we parents who aren't
) ) in touch are still somewhere down there
) scrabbling
) ) around dealing with
) ) unimportant things such as spelling etc when
) we
) ) should be looking at the big
) ) picture of life in terms of millions of
) millennia
) ) (past lives/future lives)
) ) bea
)
)
) __________________________________________________
) Do You Yahoo!?
) Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
) http://health.yahoo.com
)
)
)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 12:47:58 -0400
From: Alice K (alice.javanet rcn.com)
Subject: Re: academic curriculum
on 8/1/02 12:29 PM, momof2gals mindspring.com at momof2gals mindspring.com
wrote:
) Lisa here: Glad to hear that some Waldorf schools actually try to teach their
) students to spell! I am wondering, however, why we ought to praise
schools for
) doing what they are *supposed* to be doing, at the most basic level?
) My older daughter attended a Waldorf school through the first half of fourth
) grade, and they were just beginning to have spelling drills/quizzes
in fourth.
) Contrast that with the experience of my soon-to-be second grader at a
) non-Waldorf school. Juliet had spelling tests twice a week -- a pretest and
) then a post-test -- in first grade! The tests provided teachers and parents
) and students with a very accurate measure of what the girls learned in the
) course of a week (just note the improvement between the pre- and post-tests!)
) and did not cause the girls undue pressure.
) The bottom line when it comes to spelling is reading. Good and prolific
) readers are often good spellers (though not always!).
) If Waldorf schools really cared about literacy, they would not discourage
) children from reading before the third grade. (And no one try to tell me they
) don't discourage reading: we lived through it.)
)snips(
Alice here:
And may I point out from our personal experiences the danger of delayed
reading - delayed diagnosis of learning disabilities.
By the time there is clarity about a kid with L.D., it can be too late
developmentally to easily assist the child and expose him/her to a variety
of teaching methods that could make the difference in finding the
neurological "key".
Sure, my child is spiritually "one with the angels", but she really hates to
read at age almost fourteen.
As the head of the school for LD that she will be attending next year said,
"At this age, this is clearly indicative of a teaching disability rather
than an untreatable learning disability. If this had been addressed earlier,
there would BE no disability."
searching for the truth,
Alice (child in a W. school for nine years)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 13:45:53 -0700
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Mike
) This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
--MS_Mac_OE_3111054354_1090511_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
on 7/31/02 10:48 PM, Mike Helsher at mhelsher cheshire.net wrote:
I personally would hope not impose my ideas about this subject on anyone. I
will however share some brief experiences that have led me to where I'm at
today.
Sharon: Hi Mike, thanks for your thoughtful response. I don't think you can
impose your ideas on me if we are freely sharing and exchanging information
in a discussion.
Mike: I think my perspective is bias because of my life experience to date:
About 15 years ago I did some comparative religious studies coupled with the
works of people like: C. G. Jung, Robert Bly (Iron John) and especially
Joseph Campbell. Campbell spent his life studying myths and legends all
around the world, throughout recorded history. He found many similarities in
the myths of completely different cultures. This lead him to come to some
interesting conclusions about the nature of human consciousness.
Sharon: Yes, you mentioned before that you had read the occultist, E. Casey.
I just came across Casey this past year. (Not impressed). I lived during the
same era as you Mike! I read and watched Cambell on TV as well. (I'm a
Moyer's fan). I remember when Moyer's popped the ultimate question to
Cambell, something to the tune of, "So, after all these years of study, what
did you learn, is there more after death?" Cambell said he didn't think so.
I can't remember the exact words, but I would love to find them again.
Mike: I also studied Buddhism for a while, mostly as a cure for the dogmatic
theism that was handed to my as a child.
Sharon: Was it a cure or do you just *think* it was? Is your "new self"
really better than your "old self" or do you just *believe* this? Was your
old self really flawed or inferior? If so, why?
Don't you think Buddhism can be dogmatic? Certain strains are even
considered atheistic.
Mike: Suffuse it to say that I have been a seeker of self knowledge for some
time now.
Sharon: Aren't we all? I, like many of my fellow Waldorf critics, thirst for
knowledge. I am a freethinker, I have no gods or masters...I will be free.
I marvel at nature, but reject all human religious constructions. You are a
religious seeker trying out the Anthroposophic path (Steiner's guess.)
Sounds fair enough to me. You know exactly what you are doing, you are an
informed participant in Steiner's esoteric mystery school. Anthroposophy is
not being imposed, you have chosen the path. I was duped, you were not. See
the difference? I was expecting an art based, nonsectarian school for my
child, not an Anthroposophic initiation. I want Waldorf to be openly
Anthroposophic. I want Waldorf to quit the deception and fully disclose
their esoteric base to prospective parents. I want Waldorf to quit the
"outer form" scam.
Mike: Jung's work with dreams coupled with my studies of mythology has
caused me to lean toward a more metaphorical understanding of life.
Sharon: Metaphorical? Seems to me you have chosen Steiner's metaphysical
brand of esotericism. I read some Jung as I crawled out of Waldorf's
oppression. On my list of books to read is Peter Staudenmeir's
recommendation. Now the months have flown by and I still haven't done so.
Unfortunately, my list is at home so I can't give the title, but a scholar
basically debunks the Jung cult. Glad you reminded me of it.
Mike: This is why I am not freaked out by some of RS's ideas.
Sharon: I am freaked out by Steiner's racist doctrine. I am freaked out by
the way contemporary Anthroposophist's tried to deal with it in the "Dutch
Report". I am freaked out by Steiner's followers' deliberate attempts to
hide important information from Waldorf parents. I am freaked out by
Waldorf's inability to be open. I prefer a more open society. I prefer
pluralism rather than segregated faith schools that only give the "outer
form".
Mike: We all fall into a different aspect of consciousness when we sleep.
Maybe RS could access that while he was awake; who knows?
Sharon: Since Steiner *might* have been so enlightened let's just accept all
his ramblings as truth. After all, who knows, he might have been right?
(Sarcasm).
Mike: I've found some of his writings to be quite interesting thus far.
Sharon: I've found most of his writings to be quite loony thus far, but each
to their own. I'd like to know more about the deeper aspects of
Anthroposophy, the secrets, the doctrine I can't tap. I'll admit that I
enjoy Rudolf's fantasies on Sorath's incarnation, his convictions regarding
the cosmic importance of Anthroposophy, as well as his future prophesies
about Jupiter, Venus and Vulcan. Makes me laugh, I am drawn to comedy. I
prefer the work of the older Rosicrucians, I find their worldviews much more
interesting in a "quaint" sort of way.
Mike: I am especially looking forward to studying "The Philosophy of
Freedom". Don't get me wrong, I have great interest in natural science as
well i.e.
Sharon: Enjoy trying to break the code. Don't worry, I won't get you wrong,
I know the difference between "natural science" and science.
Mike: "Steven Hawkings Universe", but because of the subjective nature of
consciousness, science has only recently began to study it. I'm looking
forward to reading Alan Wallace's new book "The Taboo of Subjectivity:
Towards a new science of Consciousness".
Sharon: I'd disagree with your conclusions about science having "recently"
begun to study consciousness. I personally can't imagine how consciousness
could be anything but subjective, especially after seeing a TM video a
couple of months ago and hearing ex-members speak about their levitation
experiences. Participators *thought* they were levitating, they really saw
each other flying around the room on little sponge cushions. I cried with
laughter as I viewed the evidence, the video tape of believers "hopping"
around the room on little sponge cushions. Intelligent people can believe
anything they wish, anything they put their minds to. It always comes back
to the power beliefs have over the believer. I'm not familiar with the books
you are referring to so I can't comment.
Mike: I may be fooling myself, but I'm just not ready to accept that I am an
automaton made up of accidental biological activity. Nor am I willing to
have to much faith anything. The scope of life and of human consciousness is
to vast. And no human being or ideology, to my knowledge, has yet to come up
with a good answer to the question: What is the source of life?
Sharon: Then why narrow things down so much? Why enter the closed,
intramural world of Anthroposophy? Why prop up Steiner's guess?
Mike: I'm writing an essay entitled "Gnosticism in Modern Form, A Threshold
to a Truly Humane Society" It will be derived from the works of people like
Alan Wallace, Noam Chompsky, Herman Hesse, C. G. Jung, Joseph Campbell, a
study of the Gnostic Gospels found in Egypt in 1945, The Band U2, The Indigo
Girls, and even Alanis Morissette. It's part of an online Humanities program
that I'm enrolled in that revolves around the evolution of human
consciousness, with an emphasis on developing personal self knowledge. It
involves the study of people Like: Nietzsche, Rembrandt, Blake, Tolstoy,
Dostoevsky, De-Vinci, Goethe, Ben Franklin, Dante, Mozart, Plato, Lincoln
and even Rudolf Steiner, to name a few.
Sharon: I'd love to read it. What program are you enrolled in? I like the
choice of musicians.
Mike: I think I'm reasonably well informed, and all of the questions that I
thought to ask were answered to my satisfaction. I think I have a pretty
good understanding what you call the "esoteric subtext and ulterior motive",
though I'm sure there is always more to learn. I understand your concern
for the subtle aspects of WE that are not talked about to often. I think you
make a good point about the ethics and morality revolving around the
disclosure of the Anthroposophical underpinnings.
Sharon: I'm glad you are informed and satisfied. There's always another
layer when it comes to Anthroposophy, "keep on lifting"! I don't think there
is such a thing as "subtle aspects not talked about too often " when it
comes to Waldorf. The esoteric subtext is not subtle at all and never
mentioned to prospective parents "not in the know"! Steiner's Anthroposophy
is a specific religious doctrine that feeds Waldorf. I guess I just don't
relish being manipulated, deceived, duped and condescended upon. I don't see
the purpose of "hidden knowledge". I'm for an open, pluralistic society. It
pisses me off when our government acts deceptive, but I know not to trust
it. I trusted Waldorf, only to have my trust dashed.
Mike: Personally, I'm more concerned about the subtle aspects of compulsory
education these days. I like to call it 'conditioning for insertion into the
consumer matrix'.
Sharon: I'm more concerned about being duped by Anthroposophists.
Compulsory? Are you not free to home school or choose another system, even
nonschooling? Many critics bought into Waldorf's false promise of
"nonsectarianism" as we fled the public system because of fears such as
those you express, only to find that we were wrong, only to discover that we
were being conditioned to prop up Anthroposophy without our sanction or
understanding. Manipulated by Waldorf into becoming consumers of "Mc
Anthroposophy".
An interesting little anecdote: My daughter has been hanging out with her
old Waldorf friends while we are spending time in Dornac II. She tells me
that one of her Waldorf friends proudly hangs labels and Victoria Secret
bags on her walls for decoration! Fat lot of good Waldorf did! (G) Mike, are
you the product of public education? If so, it can't be that bad, surely?!
At least public school teacher's don't have to read Steiner and other
Anthroposophic publications all day.
Mike: Maybe we can talk more about Freedom later, thats all the time I have
today.
Sharon: That would be nice.
Mike: Peace
Sharon: And to you too.
==^================================================================
This email was sent to: mysplum earthlink.net
EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dkiG.b2JmGo
Or send an email to: waldorf-critics-unsubscribe topica.com
T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 12:02:31 -0700
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Re: Mike
)Mike: Jung's work with dreams coupled with my studies of mythology
)has caused me to lean toward a more metaphorical understanding of
)life.
)
)Sharon: Metaphorical? Seems to me you have chosen Steiner's
)metaphysical brand of esotericism. I read some Jung as I crawled out
)of Waldorf's oppression. On my list of books to read is Peter
)Staudenmeir's recommendation. Now the months have flown by and I
)still haven't done so. Unfortunately, my list is at home so I can't
)give the title, but a scholar basically debunks the Jung cult. Glad
)you reminded me of it.
"The Jung Cult" by Richard Noll. Highly recommended for students of
Steiner (mentioned in the book).
)Mike: I may be fooling myself, but I'm just not ready to accept that
)I am an automaton made up of accidental biological activity.
You're raising a straw man here. You can get a better understanding
of evolution by reading some of the wealth of recent popular writing
on the subject. I suggest Richard Dawkins' "River out of Eden."
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 13:16:23 -0700
From: walden (awaldenpond shaw.ca)
Subject: Re: Mike
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--Boundary_(ID_kUsccWEl5JXSzZNhiWav/w)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Re: MikeHI folks,
This conversation speaks directly, IMO, to the nature of the beast.
Parents and teachers with the best of intentions find themselves
needing something to help them make sense of life. Searching...
always searching. The magic and innocence of childhood turns into
the reality of our mortality - many wonderful human beings seem to
need a raison d'etre. Religion works for some - booze and drugs for
others - various spiritual journeys for others - and perhaps even
consumerism/materialism might be the answer for others. I am not
here to judge another's chosen path. However...
When I see these discussions on this list - or others - I often
ponder this question: What about the children? What about *their*
needs while we are all striving for whatever that *special something*
is that always seems to be just out of reach? What about the
children? Occasionally at our old school during the loooooong heavy
conferences/meetings where we were *striving* for spiritual meaning
or common ground - ostensibly with regards to the school, but we all
knew it went deeper than that - a parent would stand up and ask "what
does this have to do with the children?" You could hear a pin drop
after those words. It has taken me years to understand that Waldorf
really is not about the children. There is no respect for these
beautiful beings as individuals. Very little, anyway. Until
puberty, at least - they are simply in transition a la Steiner.
Incarnating souls. "Form the class." Remember that concept? Four
temperaments - put them into groups and "form them." !
Do not answer questions - or answer them with questions....We can
dance around excuses for these theories forever - In my view this is
a total lack of respect for children - respect which I believe only
works 2 ways. If young children actually do learn by example - I
wonder what learning is happening in a Waldorf education?
Why do people want to teach - in Waldorf or elsewhere? I would hope
this very important question will be answered after a great deal of
thought has gone into the well being and *needs of the children* the
teacher will come in contact with - rather than by the *needs of the
teacher* on whatever spiritual path they may have chosen.
- Walden
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Helsher
To: waldorf-critics topica.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: mysplum
To: waldorf-critics topica.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: Mike
Mike:
Yours in freedom of thought,
I'll toast to that.
Sharon: How can you have freedom of mind when the organization
you support does not freely share important information with you?!
How can you be free when there is an esoteric subtext and ulterior
motive, of which you know little about, that feeds the system and
informs all school activities and strivings? How can a child be free
when a school is pumping them with Anthroposophy without their
understanding or parental sanction? At the very least parents should
understand that the school is based on Steiner's religious theories.
Parents need to understand that Waldorf is a preparation for
children's future reincarnations. To with-hold this kind of
information is ethically and morally wrong!
Mike: Your questions are difficult to answer because they stem
into the very deep and controversial topic of human freedom. I
personally would hope not impose my ideas about this subject on
anyone. I will however share some brief experiences that have led me
to where I'm at today.
I think my perspective is bias because of my life experience
to date: About 15 years ago I did some comparative religious studies
coupled with the works of people like: C. G. Jung, Robert Bly (Iron
John) and especially Joseph Campbell. Campbell spent his life
studying myths and legends all around the world, throughout recorded
history. He found many similarities in the myths of completely
different cultures. This lead him to come to some interesting
conclusions about the nature of human consciousness. I also studied
Buddhism for a while, mostly as a cure for the dogmatic theism that
was handed to my as a child. I spent many years as a flaming agnostic
in a predominantly God orientated twelve Step fellowship (I survived
the Regan era Ollie North CIA drug war :) My wife and I went to a
therapist for a year and a half *before* we got married. I worked
with a group of friends for a year or so on John Bradshaw's PBS
series on "The Family". We also work shopped Bill Moyers !
series entitled "The Power of Myth". We attended a U.U. church for a
little while to expose our children to a variety of different
religious ideas. These are just a few examples. Suffuse it to say
that I have been a seeker of self knowledge for some time now. I've
always had what I call my 'anarchist inkling'; studying the huge
realm of human consciousness has given me a clue as to why. I've
never felt comfortable hanging out with any one group for to long.
Jung's work with dreams coupled with my studies of mythology
has caused me to lean toward a more metaphorical understanding of
life. This is why I am not freaked out by some of RS's ideas. We all
fall into a different aspect of consciousness when we sleep. Maybe RS
could access that while he was awake; who knows? I've found some of
his writings to be quite interesting thus far. I am especially
looking forward to studying "The Philosophy of Freedom". Don't get me
wrong, I have great interest in natural science as well i.e. "Steven
Hawkings Universe", but because of the subjective nature of
consciousness, science has only recently began to study it. I'm
looking forward to reading Alan Wallace's new book "The Taboo of
Subjectivity: Towards a new science of Consciousness". I may be
fooling myself, but I'm just not ready to accept that I am an
automaton made up of accidental biological activity. Nor am I willing
to have to much faith anything. The scope of life and of human c!
onsciousness is to vast. And no human being or ideology, to my
knowledge, has yet to come up with a good answer to the question:
What is the source of life?
I'm writing an essay entitled "Gnosticism in Modern Form, A
Threshold to a Truly Humane Society" It will be derived from the
works of people like Alan Wallace, Noam Chompsky, Herman Hesse, C. G.
Jung, Joseph Campbell, a study of the Gnostic Gospels found in Egypt
in 1945, The Band U2, The Indigo Girls, and even Alanis Morissette.
It's part of an online Humanities program that I'm enrolled in that
revolves around the evolution of human consciousness, with an
emphasis on developing personal self knowledge. It involves the study
of people Like: Nietzsche, Rembrandt, Blake, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky,
De-Vinci, Goethe, Ben Franklin, Dante, Mozart, Plato, Lincoln and
even Rudolf Steiner, to name a few.
I think I'm reasonably well informed, and all of the questions
that I thought to ask were answered to my satisfaction. I think I
have a pretty good understanding what you call the "esoteric subtext
and ulterior motive", though I'm sure there is always more to learn.
I understand your concern for the subtle aspects of WE that are not
talked about to often. I think you make a good point about the ethics
and morality revolving around the disclosure of the Anthroposophical
underpinnings. Personally, I'm more concerned about the subtle
aspects of compulsory education these days. I like to call it
'conditioning for insertion into the consumer matrix'.
Maybe we can talk more about Freedom later, thats all the time
I have today.
Peace
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 14:25:44 -0700
From: Debra Snell (snell gv.net)
Subject: Re: academic curriculum
)Your comments about how bad it was at your UK Waldorf
)school got me wondering, especially about the
)assertion expressed on this list that in Waldorf
)schools, spelling exercises and instruction are not
)healthy and are therefore discouraged.
)
)So, I looked into the archives of the Waldorf
)discussion list for the last five years, and extracted
)the following bits of information. Since these are but
)isolated snippets of information, I suspect that there
)is a larger truth about the real relationship between
)Waldorf education and spelling hidden between the
)lines here:
)
)1) The Detroit Waldorf School has an annual
)school-wide spelling bee, and grade 4 (at least) has
)one every six weeks or so;
)
)2) The Detroit Waldorf School 4th grade classes have
)spelling homework every Monday night, involving a mix
)of drill and story problems. Spelling _rules_ are
)emphasized;
Debra:
This is wonderful. Do you know the content of the spelling words? My
oldest son had spelling tests in Waldorf third grade too. The tests
weren't weekly - they seemed to just pop up once in awhile. The words
he was assigned to learn to spell weren't very useful in his daily
life. "Queen, gnome, cloak, robber, fairies" is from one spelling
list I kept. . .
The public school Max attended used the 600 most commonly used words
list that was developed by some public school teachers in California.
That, to me anyway, seems to make more sense than having the children
learning to spell Anthroposophical tenants. I mean, very few jobs
require the proper spelling of gnome, etc.
I did notice that vowels were focused on in Max's first grade lesson
book, but then again, Eurythmy is about communicating directly with
the spirit world - and Eurythmy movements represent vowels. . . One
just can't get away from Anthroposophy in a Waldorf school.
Max had weekly spelling tests starting in second grade right on
through eighth grade. (I don't know about first grade public school
curriculum as Max was in Waldorf then.)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 16:42:09 -0700
From: walden (awaldenpond shaw.ca)
Subject: Re: academic curriculum
Coalesceus wrote (snip)
) So, I looked into the archives of the Waldorf
) discussion list for the last five years, and extracted
) the following bits of information. Since these are but
) isolated snippets of information, I suspect that there
) is a larger truth about the real relationship between
) Waldorf education and spelling hidden between the
) lines here: (snip)
Walden: Thank-you for that - many of us are indeed looking for the "larger
truth" about Waldorf. As these snippets seem to have been plucked from
another List (SJU?) I assume the issue of cutting and posting from the SJU
list to the critics list has been settled now? I can't see why any of the
authors of those posts would mind having them appear here - I hope they do
not mind if this list borrows other Waldorf posts from their list as well.
To take only what is convenient to our own belief system - from one list and
paste on another list - is showing a less than the realistic tip of the
iceberg. Lots of heavy cold stuff left under the water. We have to swim
down deep to really see.... The reality is that critical thinking is not
allowed on that list and is encouraged - pro or con Waldorf - here. We are
all searching for the "larger truth," n'est ce pas?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 22:34:02 -0700
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: NNA press release 9/01
Here's an interesting press release from a year ago. The news
center's web site is: http://www.nna-news.org/en/
-Dan Dugan
***
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001
Sender: NEWS from NNA (NNA-NEWS-OUT LISTSERV.ANTH.ORG)
From: Christian von Arnim (csvonarnim CS.COM)
Subject: The Charter Schools federal court case - is Waldorf education
religious?
Copyright 2001 News Network Anthroposophy Limited. All rights reserved.
The following material may be republished without the prior consent of News
Network Anthroposophy. News Network Anthroposophy does, however, require
acknowledgement of the source and, if provided, the author of the material.
+ + + + +
NNA-B A C K G R O U N D
The Charter Schools federal court case - is Waldorf education religious?
For some years now, People for Legal and Nonsectarian Schools (PLANS) has
been pursuing legal action against two school districts in the US state of
California for using Waldorf teaching methods. PLANS claims that the
Sacramento Unified School District and the Twin Ridges Elementary School
teach religion in their schools in breach of the US constitution because
their teaching is based on Waldorf education methods. The schools dismiss
the charge and respond that while they successfully apply the Waldorf method
in their teaching, they do not teach the content of anthroposophy or Rudolf
Steiner's writings. In the most recent development, the Sacramento federal
district court threw out the case on the grounds that PLANS lacked standing
to be a proper plaintiff. The case is by no means finished, however, since
PLANS has already submitted an appeal. Robert Freehling presents the
background to the case.
Sacramento, 19 September (NNA) - This May saw an important milestone in the
efforts of a small but determined group to close down all public Waldorf
schools: their lawsuit was thrown out by a federal district court. The
group, called People for Legal and Nonsectarian Schools (PLANS), claims that
Waldorf education is religious, and therefore should not be supported by the
government, as this violates the proper separation of church and state
guaranteed by the US constitution.
Their strategy has focused on a legal case against two California public
schools, the Yuba River Charter School in the Sierra foothills, and John
Morse Waldorf Methods Magnet in the city of Sacramento.
The case was dismissed because the court ruled that PLANS lacked standing to
be a proper plaintiff. Since PLANS originally brought the suit as taxpayers,
this defined their standing as a party who could claim they had been harmed.
Judge Damrell, who presided in the case, had ruled in favour of the
plaintiff last year, agreeing that PLANS could represent its taxpaying
members even though it is a non-profit, and therefore non-taxpaying, entity.
The issue of standing was raised early on, but this year saw a new twist
from a related ruling by a federal appeals court in New York. The case
involved the Altmans, a Roman Catholic family, who took the Bedford Central
School District to court for instruction and activities that violated their
religious beliefs. The Altmans removed their children from the school
pending the outcome of the legal efforts. Because the Altmans no longer had
children in the school, the court ruled out parts of the case that alleged
personal harm to them as taxpayers.
Judge Damrell was sufficiently impressed with defence lawyers' arguments
showing the significance of the Altman case that he overturned his previous
ruling.
This was not the only setback for PLANS in the case. They had earlier
offered testimony by half a dozen self-appointed experts on Waldorf methods,
including two of the directors of PLANS. According to the defence lawyer,
one was withdrawn, and the court ruled that four of the others did not
qualify as experts. The sixth was accepted as an expert on protestant
religious beliefs, but not on Waldorf education.
PLANS contends that the religious philosophy of anthroposophy is
inextricably linked to Waldorf education, and that the children are being
taught anthroposophy through a curriculum that is saturated with its
influence and ideas. The public Waldorf schools, on the other hand, contend
that all religious language, verses and other content that would be used in
a private Waldorf school are carefully combed through to avoid conflict with
the principles of public education. Yet, PLANS has no intention of dropping
the matter, and has already appealed the case. Lawyers do not expect any
resolution for at least a year.
The courts have been struggling for years with this issue. The first
amendment prohibits the US Congress from passing any laws "respecting an
establishment of religion...." At the founding of the country, this was a
simple matter, merely meaning that the US should not establish an official,
tax-supported, state-enforced religion, as the countries of Europe all had.
Education was not part of the picture, because there was no state-supported
education until many years later.
It wasn't until the 20th century that the relation between state, education
and religion really began to enter the courts. The most famous case was the
"Scopes Monkey Trial" in the 1920s, regarding a school teacher who presented
Darwinian evolution to his class. The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU)
instigated the case to test the constitutionality of the state's law that
prohibited the teaching of evolution. After much publicity, the teacher was
found guilty, and fined one hundred dollars.
In the 1960s the tenor of the debate shifted radically after the American
atheist Madelyn Murray O'Hair put forced school prayer on trial before the
Supreme Court. The court ruled in her favour that children should not be
compelled to say anything in class with religious content. Since then there
has been extensive argument both in and out of the courts as to what is, or
what should be, allowable. As the issues are decided in successive cases,
the rules seem to get both more restrictive and more complex.
Behind the planning of PLANS
PLANS, which claims over 40 members, is led by the triumvirate of Debra
Snell, Dan Dugan, and Lisa Ercolano. All of them have significant
connections to Waldorf. Debra Snell, a resident of Grass Valley, California
actually helped to found the Waldorf Charter school there. Dan Dugan is a
parent who claims to have fallen in love with Waldorf about a decade ago,
especially its beautiful classroom materials, as well as its emphasis on
creativity and the arts.
He placed his child in a private Waldorf school. He started reading up on
the background of Waldorf, including the writings of its creator, Rudolf
Steiner, about whom he knew nothing.
Mr. Dugan read a number of Steiner's books which contained passages that he
interpreted as racist and aspects of the curriculum that he considered to be
anti-scientific. So he approached the school with a proposal that they
"modernise" their science curriculum. The school refused. They told him,
according to his account, that people came to the school for the spiritual
philosophy, and that if he didn't approve he could leave.
Mr. Dugan interpreted the lack of dialogue on the issue as being secretive,
undemocratic and opposed to rational science. This impression was
strengthened as he found out that the philosophy was based on the occult, by
which he understood "hidden" teachings, and that these were somehow
connected with an historical lineage of secretive mystery schools which had
access to "higher knowledge" beyond the comprehension or critical evaluation
of the uninitiated.
Later Mr. Dugan found other parents, including Ms. Snell, and ex-Waldorf
teachers who formed a group called Critics of Waldorf, where they share
their experiences. When the Waldorf schools moved into the public arena, in
tax-supported charter schools, this group became alarmed and decided to take
the schools to court.
Charter Schools
Charter schools have become popular across the United States in the past
decade as a viable alternative to ordinary state-managed curricula. Each
charter school is supposed to be given broad latitude to adopt its own
approach according to the interest of local educators, parents and,
hopefully, children. The initiating group is given a charter by a
"chartering agency," usually either the state or a local school district.
Accountability standards are required to be, and generally are, equal or
greater than those for other public schools, and the charter goes up for
renewal every few years
While increased choice of curriculum is a principal aim of charter laws,
this freedom may have a rope attached. About 80% of chartering agencies
nationwide report rejecting schools for curriculum reason and 60% had
schools make changes in their curriculum in order to get approval.
California law really opened the door on the charter movement in 1998, in
which year it allowed for up to 250 charter schools to be created, and 100
new schools a year thereafter.
Unlike in a regular school, parents must sign a petition, prior to starting
the school, stating intent to enrol their children. Attendance at such
schools represents a real choice for the parents as well as the teachers, as
the law states that no student or teacher can be assigned to one by
compulsion. In addition, and importantly for the Waldorf charter schools,
state and federal charter law provides that a charter school must be
non-sectarian in its programmes, admission policies, employment practices,
and all other operations.
Waldorf Meets the World
The Waldorf charter schools challenged by PLANS have done particularly well
by objective measures used by the districts and the state. Both schools have
won awards for their programs, and this year the Yuba River Charter School
upper grades ranked first in their county on reading scores.
This is a particular victory for Waldorf, which has often been criticized
for delaying the teaching of reading until second or third grade. It also
won a grant to allow its model form of governance to be emulated by other
schools throughout the state. This unique system involves parents, teachers
and charter council to all have a say in running the school.
It is well to keep in mind that public education, and not just Waldorf, has
been subjected to court cases and public challenge on many of the same
issues, including religion. On the one side are some who think that their
religion is being suppressed and their children corrupted by tax-supported
educators who teach Darwinian atheism and deny them the right to pray. On
the other side are those who object to any religious connections, no matter
how toned down, remote or indirect.
ENDS
+ + + + +
Item reference number: N010919-01EN
Date: 19 September 2001
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 13:55:30 EDT
From: Tjgarr859 aol.com
Subject: Re: academic curriculum
--part1_51.21cf4083.2a7ad012_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 8/1/02 12:33:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
momof2gals mindspring.com writes:
) ) Your comments about how bad it was at your UK
) ) Waldorf
) ) school got me wondering, especially about the
) ) assertion expressed on this list that in
) ) Waldorf
) ) schools, spelling exercises and instruction are
) ) not
) ) healthy and are therefore discouraged.
) )
) ) So, I looked into the archives of the Waldorf
) ) discussion list for the last five years, and
) ) extracted
) ) the following bits of information. Since these
) ) are but
) ) isolated snippets of information, I suspect
) ) that there
) ) is a larger truth about the real relationship
) ) between
) ) Waldorf education and spelling hidden between
) ) the
) ) lines here:
) )
) ) 1) The Detroit Waldorf School has an annual
) ) school-wide spelling bee, and grade 4 (at
) ) least) has
) ) one every six weeks or so;
) )
) ) 2) The Detroit Waldorf School 4th grade classes
) ) have
) ) spelling homework every Monday night, involving
) ) a mix
) ) of drill and story problems. Spelling _rules_
) ) are
) ) emphasized;
) )
) ) 3) With two exceptions (both exceptions being
) ) parents), virtually 100% of the discussion over
) ) the
) ) last 5 years revolving around spelling and
) ) spelling
) ) bees was positive and supportive, by parents
) ) and
) ) teachers, in the context of a Waldorf
) ) education. The
) ) two exceptions mentioned supported the learning
) ) of
) ) spelling, but did not support the competitive
) ) nature
) ) of spelling bees;
) )
) ) 4) The Shining Mountain Waldorf School gives
) ) weekly
) ) spelling tests in the eighth grade;
) )
) ) 5) The Aurora Waldorf School of Alaska includes
) ) spelling exercises in the weekly homework,
) ) starting
) ) with 4th grade;
) )
) ) 6) The Austin Waldorf School hosts an annual
) ) spelling
) ) bee at the fall Michaelmas festival;
) )
) ) 7) The Austin Waldorf School fourth grade plays
) ) "spelling baseball" (a kind of spelling game);
) )
) )
) ) These examples were simply what was mentioned
) ) explicitly in a posting during this period. I
) ) suspect
) ) that similar orientations toward spelling are
) ) held by
) ) more than just these few mentioned Waldorf
) ) schools.
) )
) ) It appears that spelling instruction and drill
) ) is very
) ) much alive and well in Waldorf schools
) ) generally. I
) ) wonder what else is alive and well in Waldorf
) ) schools
) ) that might be getting a less than objective
) ) treatment
) ) here?
) )
) ) Coalesceus
)
Tom
I'm also very glad to hear that Waldorf actually participates in academics,
but agree that this is what they are supposed to do regardless of "what
Steiner says."
I think Coalesceus' point was to address the other side of the Waldorf
picture which none of the Waldorf rank in file seem willing to do even when
asked directly.
Again, I do not believe anyone believes that Waldorf is ALL esoteric mumbo
jumbo, but I do believe most of the experienced critics like myself have/had
a real problem with disclosing the very basis for "Waldorf Education."
If you remove Steiner and anthroposophy from Waldorf you might well call it
an "alternate education." Our problem is not whether they teach anything in
the school resembling basic skills, our problem is the deliberate misleading
of parents as to the very basis of Waldorf which is an anthroposophical cult
like religious order.
My objection involves truth in advertising and the emotional turmoil we
experienced when we became aware of what was really going on. Again, nothing
to worry about if you are aware, but I question anyone who wouldn't shutter
if suddenly you discovered you had unwittingly joined something you did not
want to.
Thanks
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 21:55:59 -0400
From: "Diana Winters" (diana.winters worldnet.att.net)
Subject: Re: Mike
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C239A6.38C3B6E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Walden wrote:
This conversation speaks directly, IMO, to the nature of the
beast. Parents and teachers with the best of intentions find
themselves needing something to help them make sense of life.
Great post, Walden. You said exactly what I was thinking.
I read all this from people saying they are ok with Waldorf
because they are into Jung or Joseph Campbell or Noam Chomsky, or
they read Edgar Cayce 20 years ago, and I think, hello?
I can't even make nice about it anymore. Do your spiritual trip
ON YOUR OWN TIME and distinguish your own needs for spirituality or
purpose in life or a new group of friends or whatever it is, from
your child's need for a decent education and a healthy social
setting. Boundaries - what part is about the child, and what part is
about the parent?
I think our generation really suffers from this, and has to
struggle to keep clear on where our own personal trips that we've
been on, "seeking" and following one "path" after another for how
many decades now? - where these leave off and basic parental
responsibility starts. Waldorf schools are full of baby boomer
parents still trying to find themselves (I was one), and not noticing
what is happening to the kids. If I sound bitter, much of it is at
myself.
Sharon wrote to Mike:
You are a religious seeker trying out the Anthroposophic path
(Steiner's guess.) Sounds fair enough to me. You know exactly what
you are doing, you are an informed participant in Steiner's esoteric
mystery school.
Right, but his children don't know, they aren't informed
participants. Mike, they will be just like you and me (I also was
handed dogmatic theism as you put it) - it will be decades before
your children can make sense of what they were taught, figure out for
themselves what they believe, or start to untangle your motivations
for putting them through this. Trust me, this stuff is no less
twisted than the old-time religion. How about letting them grow up
first, and if they want to walk an anthroposophic path, they can
choose to do so?
Anthroposophy is not being imposed,
Not on Mike perhaps, but on his children.
Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to occur to people that if they
want to read Rudolf Steiner and evolve spiritually, they are always
free to do this *without* experimenting on the children at the same
time. We imagine we are freeing them, while we do to them *exactly*
what was done to us.
Diana
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 08:17:16 -0700
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Mike
) This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
--MS_Mac_OE_3111121037_170441_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
on 8/1/02 6:55 PM, Diana Winters at Diana.Winters worldnet.att.net wrote:
Sharon wrote to Mike:
You are a religious seeker trying out the Anthroposophic path (Steiner's
guess.) Sounds fair enough to me. You know exactly what you are doing, you
are an informed participant in Steiner's esoteric mystery school.
Right, but his children don't know, they aren't informed participants.
Sharon: Yes of course, and neither do many parents know. That's what I hate
about esotericism. Thanks for making that point and bringing the
conversation back into the realm of the children. It's so important that
prospective parents understand that Waldorf is a religious training, a path
for teachers to walk in order to get their deeper Anthroposophic spiritual
jollies, while they disseminate the "outer form" to the children in their
class. Waldorf is just an Anthroposophic Sunday school for kids. They may
not learn about astral bodies, but they will learn that they came from the
stars and sing songs to Michael....all in the guise of "myths and stories
from around the world".
Anthroposophy is not being imposed,
Not on Mike perhaps, but on his children.
Sharon: True, and the class parents if they are Anthroposophically
uninformed. I type away on this list hoping to make Waldorf more forthright
and prospective parents more aware. Children in America don't have certain
rights. Parents are allowed to instill religious notions in their children,
it's OK in America for parents to force children into a certain faith. I
oppose this - I raised my own child religion-free, (before and after Waldorf
(G)) and have always told her that her faith, if she chooses one in future,
will be her own choice. Hopefully, Mike will understand one day that he is
doing the very thing to his class that was done to him.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 13:10:16 +0930
From: Willow Firesong (Willow.Firesong creative-interweb.com)
Subject: Children and Spiritual Questing - was Re: Mike
Walden, I really wanted to applaud you for the following post.
I keep being reminded of my horror as the Anthroposophical "doctor" sat
there and told us that we were harming our daughter by giving her words to
use to describe her emotions.* I couldn't believe that, after having
demonstrated a noteworthy ignorance about my condition unmatched even by
the most hidebound of the allopathic MDs I've seen about my Environmental
Illness problems over the years, he was giving me some mumbo-jumbo about it
making her sickly later in life (deliberately scaring me with the spectre
of my worst fear, my daughter being crippled by the same sort of SEVERE
Environmental Illness problems that plague both of her parents) to have
words with which to express her feelings!
He'd already debunked the claims of "clumsiness" that the teachers had been
making in their attempts to explain my 5-year-old daughter's ongoing daily
injuries (from "trap-building" play in the sandpit, and other violent abuse
in the name of "play" - all in the context of the US gang-banger slang and
symbolism that they'd picked up from the "forbidden fruit" of the
TV-related play of one child's older neighbor - this, to the child of a
woman who had moved to this country partly to escape stalking by a violent
gang-banger in the US, and his contacts in the LA/Tacoma gangs), and had no
ground on which to hang his claim that my daughter's precocity in certain
intellectual areas (which was predictable, given that there are 4
generations of exceptional intellects that I know of, preceding her, on
several of the relevant family lines, including my own documented status as
a "child prodigy") was "bringing her too much into her head", and that she
needed to be "drawn more into her body", to prevent her from becoming ill
later in life.
* When I say "giving her words to use to describe her emotions", I am
referring to teaching my daughter language that she has demonstrated a need
for, and a capacity to grasp; not things like telling her "you feel mad
now". A better example of how we approach this would be something like
'You don't know how to describe how you're feeling? Well, are you feeling
grumpy and a little sad and mad because the thing you were working on isn't
going the way you wanted it to? It sounds like you feel
"frustrated". When I'm frustrated, I feel like I should be able to make
the thing do what I want, and it just won't cooperate with me, it won't
work right, and that makes me feel all muddled up sad and mad and
grumpy. Are you "frustrated"?'
How could anyone with any concern for THE CHILD, in this day and age,
discourage a child who has had to deal with such intense life experiences
(such as an intercontinental move, away from everyone she knows, combined
with the severe illness of both parents which has removed any possibility
of a "normal" life for anyone in our household) from being given words with
which to express their feelings, rather than being forced to the kind of
violent physical outbursts we'd seen in some of the other children there
(not so coincidentally, the ones with the greatest "forced retardation" of
their intellectual development)???? That is NOT an act of caring and
concern for the child.
This is also why my husband and I have SERIOUS questions about teaching ANY
child religious and spiritual beliefs as if they were matters of
*FACT*. What I believe may be based on the best assessment I can make, and
I've put a lot of thought and evaluation into it - but in the end, due to
their nature, such beliefs MUST address certain concepts and issues that
cannot be proven one way or the other - that is part of what defines them
as matters of BELIEF as opposed to matters of FACT.
I do not want my child to take ANYONE's word on matters of belief - I want
her to make her own evaluation, and work to give her the tools that will
enable her to do so. But, in the meantime, I want her to learn the *facts*
of life (chuckle) - the things that CAN be known, proven, established on
some basis other than taking someone else's word for it. And the last
thing I want is for the people in charge of teaching her those *facts* to
be teaching her ANYONE's *beliefs* under the label of *facts*.
This includes me - she is not a vessel into which I should be pouring my
own angst or any spiritual questing I may be undergoing, although I *do*
share my own process of "spiritual growth" with her by way of letting her
see the process that I go through in asking questions, and evaluating them,
and formulating my beliefs. For instance, I've taught her the basis for my
belief that it is wrong to cause unnecessary harm to anyone, and that
although it is sometimes inevitable that SOME harm will result from one's
choices, one is not only responsible for making the choice that involves
causing the least harm, but also responsible for the harm one *does* cause,
regardless of one's lack of better options. When I have faced other moral
dilemmas, I have walked her through my thinking and my decisions, all
simplified as necessary to make them comprehensible, so that she can
understand how those decisions and evaluations can be made and based in
reason and logic - while still understanding that they are matters of belief.
It must be working, because while she agrees with me on some of those
issues, she differs with me on others, and sees no problem with that. At
the same time, she does understand that *facts*, on the other hand, are
something on which perspective, though *relevant*, is *not* a defining
parameter.
So, when it comes to the schools, this rule of differentiating between fact
and belief holds true *regardless* of how hard they may work to make their
beliefs appear to resemble my own, whenever asked about them, point-blank.
I think a lot of this comes back to the oft-repeated Waldorf quote about
their goal being the well-rounded person at age 35, NOT the well-rounded
person at age 5, or age 13. I don't want my child in any school system
that thinks that the first 34 years of their life are some sort of larval
state, to be sacrificed in the name of the adult that they will become. My
child is a person. She is in early developmental stages, but she is a
person. She deserves to be treated like one, and to matter as one, to have
the fact that she is a person be considered *relevant*, ESPECIALLY by
anyone charged with her education, and/or with the maintenance of her
well-being for a large portion of her waking hours through the majority of
her formative years.
Anything else is, quite simply, cruel and unfair, both to the people that
the children are, and to the people that they will be when they reach
adulthood. How is a person of 35 to suddenly learn what it is to be a
person, and to matter as one, when they never have before, and they have
never been treated as relevant to their own life? Children learn that they
are important, and can make change in the world for good or ill, by being
treated that way, as the treasured, growing, people that they
are. Ideally, they should be treated as people who are important to their
parents, and to the people into whose care they are entrusted, and they
will NOT learn this lesson by having their safety left to the "angels",
especially after the first few times that they have been harmed while
supposedly in this "angelic" care. Physical safety is a matter of fact,
and should not be left to a belief-based method of ensuring it. Bullying
is a preventable, addressable problem, and should not be dismissed as a
matter of a child's "karma" from some other life.
Either we have a Zeno's Paradox-like eternal chain of non-culpability,
where nobody is culpable for their own actions, which are instead the
responsibility of the person who they were reacting to (in this life or
another), who was of course reacting to someone else, who was in turn
reacting to someone else... ...or else we accept that people are
responsible for their own actions, insofar as they have any power or
capacity to choose differently (diminished capacity is NOT a normal
condition of life). There is really no functional difference between
accepting bullying and accepting rape or murder, if you are going to accept
karma as an excuse for a person's choices and actions in their current (and
only *provable*) life.
This comes back to the notion of enforcing belief as fact.
Regardless of whether or not one believes in angels, when one has been
entrusted with the responsibility for ensuring the safety of other people's
children, one does not default on that responsibility, delegating it to
invisible spirit beings whose very existence or lack thereof is a matter of
belief, and NOT of provable fact. (This opinion has been confirmed for me
by the Christian angel-believers with whom I have discussed this problem,
one of whom added that it is her understanding that God gave children
parents for the purposes of looking after them, and that's what we're here
for - parents, teachers, child-care workers, and anyone who truly loves and
cares about children.)
Regardless of whether or not a person believes that the essential part of a
person's "self" is limited to a single life, one would *think* that the
life *actually being lived at the time* would be considered to be the most
relevant, not something to be subjugated to, or even discarded in the name
of, some putative "previous life" that cannot be established through any
objective means! I accept religious diversity in my child's teachers, and
really didn't care whether they believed in reincarnation, as I was assured
that it wasn't taught in the school, and that those beliefs would not
influence the way my child was treated. Yet the ongoing biography
workshops, now that I know more about the Waldorf "biography" as a vehicle
for speculation on multiple incarnations of a given individual's "essential
self", give the lie to that statement, as they verify the pervasive
acceptance of the reincarnationist beliefs - as a fundamental influence on
not only the teachers, but the school community as a whole - in *that
school*, not just in the school system as a whole.
*Regardless of their beliefs, or mine*, the school had no right either to
subjugate my child's present well-being to some incarnative process that
they believe her spirit to be undergoing, or to lie to me about their
motives, their approach, and the way that my child was being treated, in
order to have access to her.
Eugene Schwartz' statements are most detested by the Waldorf system, in my
opinion, because of the clear way in which they reveal the truly predatory
nature of the Waldorf Education system, and the way it deliberately
deceives parents for the purposes of gaining access to their children in
order to indoctrinate those children into a system of belief while they are
still young and impressionable.
Has anyone looked into bringing suit against the schools on the basis of
simple fraud, under the truth-in-advertising laws that apply to financial
transactions and purchases of goods and services? If not, perhaps it is
time that approach was used in order to give the WE system a wake-up call
as to their legal responsibilities under the laws of the nations in which
they are attempting to operate.
At 01-08-02 01:16 PM Thursday, you wrote:
)HI folks,
)
)This conversation speaks directly, IMO, to the nature of the
)beast. Parents and teachers with the best of intentions find themselves
)needing something to help them make sense of life. Searching... always
)searching. The magic and innocence of childhood turns into the reality of
)our mortality - many wonderful human beings seem to need a raison
)d'etre. Religion works for some - booze and drugs for others - various
)spiritual journeys for others - and perhaps even consumerism/materialism
)might be the answer for others. I am not here to judge another's chosen
)path. However...
)
)When I see these discussions on this list - or others - I often ponder
)this question: What about the children? What about *their* needs while
)we are all striving for whatever that *special something* is that always
)seems to be just out of reach? What about the children? Occasionally at
)our old school during the loooooong heavy conferences/meetings where we
)were *striving* for spiritual meaning or common ground - ostensibly with
)regards to the school, but we all knew it went deeper than that - a parent
)would stand up and ask "what does this have to do with the children?" You
)could hear a pin drop after those words. It has taken me years to
)understand that Waldorf really is not about the children. There is no
)respect for these beautiful beings as individuals. Very little,
)anyway. Until puberty, at least - they are simply in transition a la
)Steiner. Incarnating souls. "Form the class." Remember that
)concept? Four temperaments - put them into groups and "form them." Do
)not answer questions - or answer them with questions....We can dance
)around excuses for these theories forever - In my view this is a total
)lack of respect for children - respect which I believe only works 2
)ways. If young children actually do learn by example - I wonder what
)learning is happening in a Waldorf education?
)
)Why do people want to teach - in Waldorf or elsewhere? I would hope this
)very important question will be answered after a great deal of thought has
)gone into the well being and *needs of the children* the teacher will come
)in contact with - rather than by the *needs of the teacher* on whatever
)spiritual path they may have chosen.
)
)
)- Walden
)
)
)----- Original Message -----
)From: (mailto:mhelsher cheshire.net)Mike Helsher
)To: (mailto:waldorf-critics topica.com)waldorf-critics topica.com
)Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:48 PM
)Subject: Re: Mike
)
)----- Original Message -----
)From: (mailto:mysplum earthlink.net)mysplum
)To: (mailto:waldorf-critics topica.com)waldorf-critics topica.com
)Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:54 AM
)Subject: Re: Mike
)
)Mike:
)Yours in freedom of thought,
)I'll toast to that.
)
)Sharon: How can you have freedom of mind when the organization you
)support does not freely share important information with you?! How can
)you be free when there is an esoteric subtext and ulterior motive, of
)which you know little about, that feeds the system and informs all school
)activities and strivings? How can a child be free when a school is pumping
)them with Anthroposophy without their understanding or parental sanction?
)At the very least parents should understand that the school is based on
)Steiner's religious theories. Parents need to understand that Waldorf is a
)preparation for children's future reincarnations. To with-hold this kind
)of information is ethically and morally wrong!
)Mike: Your questions are difficult to answer because they stem into the
)very deep and
)controversial topic of human freedom. I personally would hope not impose
)my ideas about this subject on anyone. I will however share some brief
)experiences that have led me to where I'm at today.
)
) I think my perspective is bias because of my life experience to
) date: About 15 years ago I did some comparative religious studies
) coupled with the works of people like: C. G. Jung, Robert Bly (Iron John)
) and especially Joseph Campbell. Campbell spent his life studying myths
) and legends all around the world, throughout recorded history. He found
) many similarities in the myths of completely different cultures. This
) lead him to come to some interesting conclusions about the nature of
) human consciousness. I also studied Buddhism for a while, mostly as a
) cure for the dogmatic theism that was handed to my as a child. I spent
) many years as a flaming agnostic in a predominantly God orientated twelve
) Step fellowship (I survived the Regan era Ollie North CIA drug war :) My
) wife and I went to a therapist for a year and a half *before* we got
) married. I worked with a group of friends for a year or so on John
) Bradshaw's PBS series on "The Family". We also work shopped Bill Moyers
) series entitled "The Power of Myth". We attended a U.U. church for a
) little while to expose our children to a variety of different religious
) ideas. These are just a few examples. Suffuse it to say that I have been
) a seeker of self knowledge for some time now. I've always had what I call
) my 'anarchist inkling'; studying the huge realm of human consciousness
) has given me a clue as to why. I've never felt comfortable hanging out
) with any one group for to long.
)
)Jung's work with dreams coupled with my studies of mythology has caused me
)to lean toward a more metaphorical understanding of life. This is why I am
)not freaked out by some of RS's ideas. We all fall into a different aspect
)of consciousness when we sleep. Maybe RS could access that while he was
)awake; who knows? I've found some of his writings to be quite interesting
)thus far. I am especially looking forward to studying "The Philosophy of
)Freedom". Don't get me wrong, I have great interest in natural science as
)well i.e. "Steven Hawkings Universe", but because of the subjective nature
)of consciousness, science has only recently began to study it. I'm looking
)forward to reading Alan Wallace's new book "The Taboo of Subjectivity:
)Towards a new science of Consciousness". I may be fooling myself, but I'm
)just not ready to accept that I am an automaton made up of accidental
)biological activity. Nor am I willing to have to much faith anything. The
)scope of life and of human consciousness is to vast. And no human being or
)ideology, to my knowledge, has yet to come up with a good answer to the
)question: What is the source of life?
)
)I'm writing an essay entitled "Gnosticism in Modern Form, A Threshold to a
)Truly Humane Society" It will be derived from the works of people like
)Alan Wallace, Noam Chompsky, Herman Hesse, C. G. Jung, Joseph Campbell, a
)study of the Gnostic Gospels found in Egypt in 1945, The Band U2, The
)Indigo Girls, and even Alanis Morissette. It's part of an online
)Humanities program that I'm enrolled in that revolves around the evolution
)of human consciousness, with an emphasis on developing personal self
)knowledge. It involves the study of people Like: Nietzsche, Rembrandt,
)Blake, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, De-Vinci, Goethe, Ben Franklin, Dante, Mozart,
)Plato, Lincoln and even Rudolf Steiner, to name a few.
)
)I think I'm reasonably well informed, and all of the questions that I
)thought to ask were answered to my satisfaction. I think I have a pretty
)good understanding what you call the "esoteric subtext and ulterior
)motive", though I'm sure there is always more to learn. I understand
)your concern for the subtle aspects of WE that are not talked about to
)often. I think you make a good point about the ethics and morality
)revolving around the disclosure of the Anthroposophical underpinnings.
)Personally, I'm more concerned about the subtle aspects of compulsory
)education these days. I like to call it 'conditioning for insertion into
)the consumer matrix'.
)
)Maybe we can talk more about Freedom later, thats all the time I have today.
)
)Peace
)
)Mike
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 10:45:02 -0700
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Children and Spiritual Questing -
on 8/2/02 8:40 PM, Willow Firesong at willow.firesong creative-interweb.com
wrote:
Sharon: Thanks for your powerful, heart to heart post Willow. You wrote:
) Has anyone looked into bringing suit against the schools on the basis of
) simple fraud, under the truth-in-advertising laws that apply to financial
) transactions and purchases of goods and services? If not, perhaps it is
) time that approach was used in order to give the WE system a wake-up call
) as to their legal responsibilities under the laws of the nations in which
) they are attempting to operate.
Sharon: When I come across the same old "cover ups" in print, in papers
distributed by our ex-school, I often wonder what the statute of limitations
is ((G)rrrr). Yesterday, I picked up a few "Calyxs" from a friend. These are
news letters put out by our ex-school several times a year. In volume 23,
winter 2001-2002 I came across a teacher's denial that made me want to
respond. It is sooooo frustrating to read this kind of thing which I will
quote from, (and copy and send to Dan Dugan to add to his piles of
"Waldorf-denials-of-the-obvious".
It appears from reading the article that parents are having some
difficulties putting their fingers on "what is really going on" at their
esoteric mystery school. I remember this feeling well. Funny how
Anthroposophists can't say the word "religion" without going into deep
denial and emphasizing "the spiritual". If you asked a Buddhist if Buddhism
was their religion, I doubt they'd blush and deny such a thing. What is
wrong with being a religion? A religious school? Why can't Waldorf come out
and embrace their Theosophical/Rosicrucian religious tradition? I suppose it
all goes back to the old Rosicrucian proverb, "he who hides well, lives
well". Over the next few days, I will quote from the confused article and
respond to what is said, I hope others on the list will also chime in. I'd
like to send any responses to Maureen. The article is entitled "Pleasant
Ridge and Anthroposophy":
Maureen Karlstad, class teacher on sabbatical: "We are often asked at our
school about the spiritual nature of our curriculum. Is Pleasant Ridge a
Christian school? If not, then why do we celebrate Christian festivals? If
it is, then why do we celebrate non-Christian festivals? And what is
Anthroposophy? And what does it have to do with Waldorf Education? If it's
not a religion, then what could it possibly be? These are difficult
questions to address and many people in our school have endeavored to find
answers that seem to fit our unique situation as well as our standing in the
Waldorf Education movement. This short article cannot hope to address all of
these concerns. It can only offer a starting point to understanding the
relationship between Anthroposophy and Waldorf Education".
Sharon Lombard, ex-Pleasant Ridge parent responds: A short article can
easily get to the heart of the matter! Anthroposophy couldn't possibly be
anything but an esoteric religion Maureen! These questions are not difficult
to answer at all and can be easily addressed, especially by a teacher who
has done her homework! Pleasant Ridge Waldorf School is an Anthroposophic
school. Anthroposophy is an esoteric religion. Steiner led a schism from the
Theosophical Society in 1912 in order to establish his religion. Therefore,
one could say, "Anthroposophy is a schismatic branch of Madame Blavatsky's
Theosophy". Anthroposophy is also heavily steeped in Rosicrucianism. In
short, *Anthroposophy is an esoteric religion in the mystery tradition and
Waldorf is the parochial school for Anthroposophy - a magical mystery
school*. In Waldorf you celebrate *Anthroposophic* festivals, which may or
may not be, considered "Christian", depending on who is pondering such a
question. (For example, Mormons believe they are Christians, although some
Christians would say Mormon's are not Christian but Mormon). The festivals
celebrated in Waldorf are Anthroposophic initiations.
Waldorf education is based entirely on Anthroposophy with it's main tenet of
reincarnation. Steiner's "child development" model views the human as an
incarnating being with 9 bodies. These bodies incarnate in 7 year
increments. This 9 bodied model of the human being can be simplified to a 4
bodied man ie., Physical, Etheric, Astral and I. The school functions as a
place to carefully foster proper incarnations and as a preparation for death
and rebirth (future incarnations). Steiner's goal is to help people
remember who they worked with in life so that they can meet up in the after
world and reincarnate together in core groups scattered around the globe in
his proposed Sixth Epoch, when his cult will inhabit the world. These groups
will instruct those who haven't developed their "I" in what they may "think,
feel, will and do". The earth and all it shall yield will belong to those
who develop their "Is". Steiner has made many prophesies of what is to come.
More soon.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 21:40:50 +0000
From: (jones9876 cs.com)
Subject: Thank you to "Critics"
Thanks to Waldorf-Critics for all the information. It has helped us
realize that our situation was not an isolated one, and has given us the
courage to fight back against our former school. As our situation is
ongoing at this point, we do not want to give any details as to our
story until we have completely severed all ties to our school. Be
assured that we will share our story as soon as possible.
We have referred many people to this site in the hopes of preventing
others from suffering at the hands of Waldorf "education". Keep up the
good work Dan Dugan and all your supporters.
Jones9876
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 11:57:48 -0700
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Cc: elena515 attbi.com
Subject: fan mail
)Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 21:26:15 -0700 (PDT)
)From: "elena" (elena515 attbi.com)
)To: (president waldorfcritics.org)
)Subject: Thank you, PLANS!
)
)Guys,
)
)You REALLY made my decision FOR Waldorf!
)
)I don't know much about Steiner, and nor do I care.
)But reading your stupid (sorry), propagandistic, FOX-like-attitude
)posts and articles about Waldorf, I
)really believe now that Waldorf, with all its deficiencies of
)marginal religious school is the best
)to choose if you likes so much hate it.
)
)There is ONLY hate in your stories and your articles, no single
)straightforward fact, no factual story,
)only hysterics, hate and propaganda.
)
)Thank you, zealous people!
)
)Elena
)Prospective Waldorf parent
Well, Elena, I guess we really pushed your buttons! I'm curious, you
say you're a prospective Waldorf parent, what makes you so sure that
Waldorf is what you think it is? What is your experience with
Anthroposophy and Waldorf education?
-Dan Dugan
Secretary, PLANS, Inc.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 19:34:09 EDT
From: Tjgarr859 aol.com
Subject: Re: fan mail
--part1_113.1537c948.2a7f13f1_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 8/4/2002 2:58:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
dan dandugan.com writes:
) )Subject: Thank you, PLANS!
) )
) )Guys,
) )
) )You REALLY made my decision FOR Waldorf!
) )
) )I don't know much about Steiner, and nor do I care.
) )But reading your stupid (sorry), propagandistic, FOX-like-attitude
) )posts and articles about Waldorf, I
) )really believe now that Waldorf, with all its deficiencies of
) )marginal religious school is the best
) )to choose if you likes so much hate it.
) )
) )There is ONLY hate in your stories and your articles, no single
) )straightforward fact, no factual story,
) )only hysterics, hate and propaganda.
) )
) )Thank you, zealous people!
) )
) )Elena
) )Prospective Waldorf parent
)
) Well, Elena, I guess we really pushed your buttons! I'm curious, you
) say you're a prospective Waldorf parent, what makes you so sure that
) Waldorf is what you think it is? What is your experience with
) Anthroposophy and Waldorf education?
)
) -Dan Dugan
) Secretary, PLANS, Inc.
)
)
Tom
The stories we relate really happened. I believe Elena will ask a few
questions before she enrolls her children now that she knows that there is
much more.
Maybe PLANS should be mandatory reading for all prospective parents because
Waldorf sure won't do it.
Elena is probably hearing just what a lot of us heard in the
beginning........Nothing.
Later on she will be told the standard line about PLANS having "an ax to
grind" and that "anthroposophy is not taught in the school."
If Elena believes in anthroposophy I think PLANS is the best free advertising
waldorf could ever hope for. As for the rest of us who tripped over Steiner's
religion, I think it is clear that we feel a need to tell people what waldorf
won't.
In the end, it is up to Elena to make the best INFORMED DECISION she can make
for her children.
Keep up the good work PLANS.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 22:55:25 -0700
From: walden (awaldenpond shaw.ca)
Subject: Re: Children and Spiritual Questing - was Re: Mike
Rondel wrote:
(snip) Has anyone looked into bringing suit against the schools on the
basis of
) simple fraud, under the truth-in-advertising laws that apply to financial
) transactions and purchases of goods and services? If not, perhaps it is
) time that approach was used in order to give the WE system a wake-up call
) as to their legal responsibilities under the laws of the nations in which
) they are attempting to operate.
Walden: Good post and question. I know more than a few people who have
asked the same question. I believe it would be a costly venture (legal)
and unless I am mistaken it is not possible to sue the *movement* as a
whole. One must look at each case individually although the recent legal
problems for the movement (see PLANS site) do seem to involve the philosophy
behind the Waldorf movement. I do not know whether or not a class action
suit has ever been taken against AWSNA or any Waldorf school. Perhaps a
lawyer or two on the list might offer an opinion? IMNSHO - this is clearly
a case of false advertising as anyone with a few hours of research will
understand. It took me only a few minutes of poking around the Net (I was
curious) when I mistakenly thought it was just our school that mislead
people. I wrote a brief blurb for the PLANS site with some of the research
I easily discovered.
The fact that THIS many parents feel swindled and betrayed by a *school
movement* - and strongly enough to engage in discussion after the fact via
the Internet speaks volumes to the enormity of the problem. I can only
imagine the *real* numbers of duped parents who have never heard of PLANS or
do not have access to the Internet or have no desire to walk down a
forgettable memory lane... like many of us do. Now there is an interesting
study in itself!
Perhaps there are many approaches to give WE a wake-up call.
-Walden
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 21:11:22 -0700
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: hard times hit Anthroposophy, too
The recession in the U.S. is affecting Anthroposophical initiatives,
too. I recently got a letter from the Anthroposophical Society
announcing that *Anthroposophy Worldwide-U.S. Edition* is ceasing
publication due to "financial constraints."
I also received an urgent appeal from The Rudolf Steiner Library
(Ghent, NY) announcing cutbacks in hours and services. It would be a
pity if the library had to close. Their newsletter is, in my opinion,
the best Anthroposophical publication in English.
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 10:52:06 -0700
From: walden (awaldenpond shaw.ca)
Subject: Waldorf Art
We were told this is simply an arts based non-sectarian education. I was
pleased to know that my children would be painting and not sitting in front
of a computer at school. Little did I know what "art" really means in the
world of Waldorf/Anthroposophy. Now I look at the *art* my children
produced over the years and I begin to understand some of the subtleties
which, until recently, remained a mystery. I dream of the day when the
Waldorf Movement stands up and begins to understand the concept of
accountability. I dream of the day when Waldorf promotes itself honestly
and shares its occult belief system. I dream....
-Walden
From:
http://www.anthropress.org/BooksPages/ArtasaSpiritualActivity.htm
Art As Spiritual Activity
Rudolf Steiner's Contribution to the Visual Arts Selected
Lectures by Rudolf Steiner
Edited and Introduced by Michael Howard
This book introduces a new way for thinking about, creating, and viewing
art.
The most fundamental issue for the arts today ... is the spiritual
foundation of the arts.... Steiner demonstrates that our individual creative
activity is not solely a personal affair. Our creations do not originate out
of nowhere, nor solely out of ourselves, but from an objective world of
spirit with which we are intimately related in the depths of our being. He
shows that our creations have significance beyond ourselves and beyond the
recognition they receive: works of art are vehicles of spirit ual qualities.
In bringing these spiritual qualities into the sphere of human life, the
artist becomes responsible for the spiritual effects the work of art has on
the artist, other people, and ultimately on human evolution. -Michael
Howard, from the book
Rudolf Steiner saw his task as the renewal of the lost unity of science, the
arts, and religion; thus, he created a new, cognitive
scientific-and-religious art in anthroposophy. The implications of his
act -recognized by such diverse artists as Wassily Kandinsky and Joseph
Beuys -are only now coming fully to light.
In his introduction of more than 100 pages, Michael Howard takes the reader
through these thought-provoking chapters: Is Art Dead? To Muse or Amuse
Artistic Activity as Spiritual Activity "The Representative of Humanity"
Beauty, Creativity, and Metamorphosis New Directions in Art.
336 pages, paperback
ISBN 0-88010-396-5
$18.95
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 10:27:42 -0700
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Florida court cancels voucher program
California also has constitutional language that is more strict about
church-state separation than the federal constitution.
-Dan Dugan
***
Fla. Strikes Down Voucher Program
By DAVID ROYSE
.c The Associated Press
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) - A judge's rejection of Florida's voucher law
could force a change in plans for 46 students attending private
schools under the program and hundreds of others who had planned to
use vouchers this year.
Jeffrey Dale said his seventh-grade daughter, Cecilia, has been
attending a Catholic school on a voucher since 1999. Without it, he
said he couldn't afford to send her there.
The judge's ruling Monday is going to ``bust her bubble,'' he said.
``I know she doesn't want to go to a public school. I don't know what
we're going to do.''
State Circuit Judge P. Kevin Davey said the state constitution
forbids the use of tax money to send youngsters to religious schools.
The ruling came just weeks before the start of the school year, and
could mean that the 46 students are forced to return to public school.
As of Monday, state officials said the parents of 659 children had
notified the state they intended to use vouchers for the coming
school year, which begins in mid- to late-August in many districts.
Gov. Jeb Bush, who promoted the 1999 voucher law as one of the main
accomplishments of his administration, said the state will appeal and
try to prevent the ruling from taking effect this school year.
``It's not fair to the parents who make these decisions. They think
it's the best choice for their children, and then to have that yanked
out,'' Bush said.
Just over a month ago, the U.S. Supreme Court swept aside a major
hurdle to voucher programs, ruling that such uses of tax dollars do
not violate the separation of church and state required by the U.S.
Constitution.
But Davey said the Florida Constitution is ``clear and unambiguous''
in prohibiting public money from going to churches or other
``sectarian institutions.''
``While this court recognizes and empathizes with the ... purpose of
this legislation - to enhance the educational opportunity of children
caught in the snare of substandard schools - such a purpose does not
grant this court authority to abandon the clear mandate of the people
as enunciated in the constitution,'' Davey wrote.
He barred students from using vouchers to attend private school this year.
``We knew when a judge looked at it that he would side with us,''
said Maureen Dinnen, president of the Florida Education Association,
the state's teachers union. ``It is absolutely wrong to divert tax
money to private schools. Now we can focus on public schools again.''
Other voucher programs are under way in Cleveland and in Milwaukee.
The 1999 Florida law allows students at public schools that earn a
failing grade two years out of four to get a voucher to attend
private schools, including religious schools.
On June 27, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld an Ohio voucher law, ruling
that state money could be spent on religious schools if parents can
freely choose what private school they want their children to attend.
But the Florida Constitution says more explicitly that no state money
can aid any church or religious institution. And states are free to
enact more far-reaching protections than the federal government.
Florida's voucher law was challenged by the teachers union, the
Florida PTA, the Florida League of Women Voters and several families
and educators.
After Monday's ruling, the governor said the state is prepared to
find private money to help children attend private schools.
Students at two Pensacola elementary schools were eligible for
vouchers in the first three years of the program and about 50
students have opted to use vouchers at five private schools.
Nearly 9,000 students at 10 public schools around the state became
eligible for the 2002-03 school year.
08/06/02 02:38 EDT
Copyright 2002 The Associated Press. The information contained in the
AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or
otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The
Associated Press.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 00:04:23 -0700
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Anthroposophy for Beginners
The R.S. Library newsletter reviews an interesting book:
Tummer, Lia. *Rudolf Steiner and Anthroposophy for Beginners.*
Writers and Readers Publishing, Inc., 2001, pp. 178.
from the review by jes:
"...a sort of philosophical comic book, an illustrated 'Cliff Notes'
version of anthroposophy.
"Yet, though the new-age-y, rather lurid illustrations dominate, the
content is dynamic and covers a lot of material in an amazingly
succinct way. The tone is respectful and serious; the information is
largely accurate and clearly presented. The author was a Waldorf
student and works as a translator."
It's available from Amazon for $10, I've just ordered it (don't
forget to click through the PLANS page for all your Amazon shopping.
When you do that, we get a few cents on your purchases).
This might be a perfect gift for school board members contemplating a
Waldorf charter!
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 06:59:12 -0400
From: "Diana Winters" (diana.winters worldnet.att.net)
Subject: Re: Anthroposophy for Beginners
)The R.S. Library newsletter reviews an interesting book:
)
)Tummer, Lia. *Rudolf Steiner and Anthroposophy for Beginners.*
)Writers and Readers Publishing, Inc., 2001, pp. 178.
I've seen this - it's really, really bizarre. I thought it was critical at
first, or at least ironic, but it's straightforward, and admiring of
Steiner. The illustrations are hideous and goofy. I'm sorry you spent money
on it, Dan.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 22:07:00 -0700
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Re: Anthroposophy for Beginners
) )The R.S. Library newsletter reviews an interesting book:
))
))Tummer, Lia. *Rudolf Steiner and Anthroposophy for Beginners.*
))Writers and Readers Publishing, Inc., 2001, pp. 178.
)
DIANA
)I've seen this - it's really, really bizarre. I thought it was critical at
)first, or at least ironic, but it's straightforward, and admiring of
)Steiner. The illustrations are hideous and goofy. I'm sorry you spent money
)on it, Dan.
DAN
Bizarre, hideous, goofy? I'm really looking forward to it!
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 08:51:16 -0700
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: More on Archangel Michael in Waldorf curriculum
Sharon: I wrote and sent this a few days ago but don't think it went through
to critics, so here it is again. Sorry if you've seen it already.
Waldorf Kindergarteners sing,
"The autumn wind blows open the gate,
O Michael, for you we wait,
We follow you, show us the way
With joy we greet this autumn day.
Good morning, good morning!"
Understand that in Anthroposophy, Michael is the Guardian of the Threshold
between life and death and "the only peaceful way to die is by crossing the
threshold of Michael". (p 2 The Task of the Archangel Michael, E.E.
Pfeiffer. Mercury Press, Spring Valley, NY).
A child at our ex-school wrote in a lesson book:
"In September Michael is here
He will help us overcome all fear".
Michael lives in the realm of thought. Anthroposophists say people have
thought in common with the spirit world. They teach that Michael cannot
descend to the physical but by perceiving Michael in the realm of thought we
can have immediate intercourse with the spiritual world. In Anthroposophy,
fear, materialism and evil are personified by Ahriman. Michael fights
against Ahriman, against fear, fear of death.
Third graders act out the annual ritual of Michael slaying the dragon.
Each year, the school children watch as Michael conquers the fear of death,
as he slays the dragon Ahriman. Anthroposophists teach that one of the first
Michael initiations is described in the apocryphal "Acts of Bartholomew".
Bartholomew had to fight against the dragon, he was afraid but Michael
helped him overcome his fears and conquer the dragon. This is an inner
experience of overcoming the fear of death. Once again, Waldorf the mystery
school reinforces the concept of death and reincarnation as the seasons
pass. Steiner's schools are mystery schools that stress
the concept of reincarnation against a backdrop of seasonal cycles. This is
traditional for certain mystery schools.
------------------------------
End of waldorf-critics topica.com digest, issue 788
-- Topica Digest --
Re: Children and Spiritual Questing -
By mysplum earthlink.net
Re: Children and Spiritual Questing -
By dan dandugan.com
Re: a-s: The back beat in popular music
By dan dandugan.com
Re: Children and Spiritual Questing -
By mysplum earthlink.net
Re: Children and Spiritual Questing -
By awaldenpond shaw.ca
Re: a-s: The back beat in popular music
By Diana.Winters worldnet.att.net
Re: a-s: The back beat in popular music
By Gary GoodWinter.com
RE: a-s: The back beat in popular music
By Percedol netscape.net
RE: Children and Spiritual Questing -
By Percedol netscape.net
Re: a-s: The back beat in popular music
By momof2gals mindspring.com
RE: a-s: The back beat in popular music
By dan dandugan.com
Re: Children and Spiritual Questing -
By mysplum earthlink.net
GAS 2001 Annual Report (including finances)
By dan dandugan.com
RE: a-s: The back beat in popular music
By Percedol netscape.net
RE: a-s: The back beat in popular music
By dan dandugan.com
Re: a-s: The back beat in popular music
By awaldenpond shaw.ca
RE: a-s: The back beat in popular music
By dan dandugan.com
racist pamplet from NZ neo-Nazi
By dan dandugan.com
Re: racist pamplet from NZ neo-Nazi
By dan dandugan.com
Re: Children and Spiritual Questing -
By mysplum earthlink.net
Re: racist pamplet from NZ neo-Nazi
By snell gv.net
Re: racist pamplet from NZ neo-Nazi
By awaldenpond shaw.ca
Atlantic Monthly article on vaccines and Waldorf
By Diana.Winters worldnet.att.net
Re: racist pamplet from NZ neo-Nazi
By dan dandugan.com
RE: a-s: The back beat in popular music
By dan dandugan.com
Re: Atlantic Monthly article on vaccines and Waldorf
By snell gv.net
Re: Atlantic Monthly article on vaccines and Waldorf
By Gary GoodWinter.com
Atlantic Monthly article
By Diana.Winters worldnet.att.net
re: Atlantic Monthly article/Waldorf
By momof2gals mindspring.com
Re: Atlantic Monthly article/Waldorf
By Diana.Winters worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 10:19:21 -0700
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Children and Spiritual Questing -
on 8/9/02 11:12 AM, mysplum at mysplum earthlink.net wrote:
Sharon: Continuing to quote from the Calyx adding my two cents, Volume 23,
Issue 2 Winter 2001-2002.
Waldorf teacher Maureen Karlstad continues:
"In everything that happens in our school, there is an acknowledgement of
the spiritual nature of the human being. We may have many different ways of
describing spirituality, and many different ways of incorporating this
knowledge into our work, but fundamentally, we acknowledge the spiritual
foundations of our existence. Many Waldorf charter schools have had to deal
with this issue as it relates to public schooling and the separation of
church and state. In maintaining our independent status, we can acknowledge
the spiritual nature of what we do without having to take on the
church/state issue. How can our curriculum be spiritual but not religious?
This is the question wee need to work with. This is an important
distinction to make, but not that easily made. The answers arise through
on-going study and self-examination."
Sharon, ex-Waldorf parent of Pleasant Ridge Waldorf School (Maureen's
school):
I'm very happy to see you openly admit in the Calyx that at Pleasant Ridge
Waldorf School, the human being is viewed as a spiritual being. But what
does this mean? What are the spiritual foundations of our existence?
Through ongoing study one learns that Waldorf and Anthroposophy are
inextricably linked. Since the school is based and fed
entirely by Steiner's esoteric Anthroposohic worldview, I don't think it's
honest to say that "we have many different ways of describing
spirituality", certainly this is not the case at Pleasant Ridge. Steiner's
"child development model", Waldorf's curriculum, and Waldorf's teacher
training schools are all based on Steiner's religion,
Anthroposophy. Steiner's religious system is quite specific and
Pleasant Ridge Waldorf School is specifically Anthroposophic. I ask that
you get more specific and let parent's know what the 'fundamental
acknowledgement of the spiritual foundations of our existence' means.
Tell parents about Steiner's cosmology, let parents know about Saturn, Sun
and Moon existence. Tell parents that Steiner believed
that Anthroposophists are the descendents of advanced beings that were
saved from the Atlantis flood who continue to evolve and reincarnate,
eventually to inherit the earth during his proposed Sixth Epoch. Let
parents know that Steiner prophesied that Anthroposophists will be saved
from an apocalyptic war of all against all, when white humanity who has
taken the spirit deep into the skin will fight and destroy less advanced
black humanity. Let parents know that Waldorf is based on Steiner's concept
of the human as an incarnating being consisting of physical, astral,
etheric and I bodies, a spiritual being who has lived many lives
previously, and one who may strive to become more and more spiritually
advanced, becoming plant-like on Jupiter and giving birth by speaking
another into existence on Vulcan. Let parents know details of Steiner's
doctrine and religion-based "child development model". Be open about your
annual Michael initiations, tell parents that you teach reincarnation
to children at Pleasant Ridge. Explain to them why children walk the Advent
Spiral of reincarnation each year. Tell parent's about Steiner's teachings
on color, let them know that devoting yourself to color helps one see
spiritual beings. Tell them that devotion to the color on the walls helps
people see through the walls into the neighborhood and witness spiritual
beings which is why Waldorf classrooms are painted certain colors. Help
parents understand that depending on the color one devotes themselves to
depends on what beings are seen. It is your responsibility to help parents
understand the Anthroposophy in the classroom. Explain the esoteric meaning
of the Aryan initiation in fifth grade! Tell parents that the "morning
verse" is really a prayer to Christ the Sun Spirit and that according to
Steiner Jesus is the reincarnation of Zarathustra and Christian
Rosenkreutz, among others. Tell parents that Steiner deliberately veiled
Waldorf, instructing his disciples (the first Waldorf
teachers) to refer to the prayer as a morning verse, and to only give the
outer form of Anthroposophy in order to guard against prejudice. Inform
parents of Steiner's belief in elemental spirits, let
them know that Steiner taught his disciples that gnomes and fairies
actually exist which is why Pleasant Ridge teaches this to pupils. Tell
parents that the "Rainbow Bridge" story told to children on their birthdays
in the early grades is an Anthroposophic parable about the
bridge of reincarnation that children take from the stars to the earth when
they incarnate.
I see you mentioned the church/state issue. PLANS is making an impact.
True, Pleasant Ridge is not publicly funded, (although at one point the
school was trying to obtain public monies. If you remember, I wrote a
letter to Viroqua's superintendent warning him of PRWS's sectarian base).
Because PRWS is a private school, it is free to initiate children into
Steiner's Anthroposophic mysteries, but not without parental sanction.
PRWS has the responsibility of clarifying the religious underpinnings and
worldview of the school to parents before they enroll children or it could
be considered consumer fraud, there are truth in advertising laws. Tell
parents what Eurythmy really is (it is not merely "a form of dance").
Disclose these things to parents in your brochures. Be forthright! Your
curriculum cannot possibly be spiritual without being religious because it
is based entirely on the mystagogue Rudolf Steiner's religious perspective,
his occultism, Anthroposophy. Waldorf is informed by and promulgates a
specific religious worldview. I remember many instances when I was told by
faculty at Pleasant Ridge Waldorf School that what I was contributing was
not Anthroposophic. Faculty and certain parents were always trying to guide
me to be Anthroposophic because PRWS is an Anthroposophic School. It was a
confusing time for our family because in those days we didn't know what
Anthroposophy was. Embrace your Anthroposophic tradition, be openly
Anthroposophic. Despite the fact that Steiner veiled his mystery schools
in an outer form of "idealistic philosophy", his esoteric religious
worldview comes out thick and strong.
Before being fired, Anthroposophist Eugene Schwartz, once head of Waldorf
teacher training at Sunbridge, had this to say:
Eugene Schwartz: "I think we owe it to our parents to let them know that
the child is going to go through one religious experience after another.
And if any of the teacher trainees in the room feel that I?m not saying
that clearly enough to you, well here it is guys, if I haven?t said it to
you a hundred times already: when we deny that Waldorf schools are giving
children religious experiences, we are denying the whole basis of Waldorf
education"..
"To deny the religious basis of Waldorf education ? I would say it again ?
to satisfy public school superintendents, or a talk show host, or a
newspaper reporter is very, very wrong. And the Waldorf leadership , I
would say is waffling on this matter. I would say we are religious schools.
Religious schools plus; religious schools with a difference; religious
schools light ? whatever you want to call it".
"The time has come for us to stop pussyfooting around [theories] that will
sound too strange if we tell parents what we are really doing. Don?t say I
didn?t tell you guys?ten years ago ! Stop pussyfooting around. Tell
everybody what we are about. The day they walk into the school, let them
know then".
"If we are really to be a movement for cultural renewal, it is our
responsibility to share with the parents those elements of Anthroposophy
which will help them understand their children and fathom the mysterious
ways in which we work. Yes, we are giving the children a version of
Anthroposophy in the classroom; whether we mean to or not, it?s there".
(From the transcript of Eugene Schwartz?s talk given November 13, 1999.
Schwartz was at that time Director of Waldorf Teacher Training, Sunbridge
College. The talk was called, "Waldorf Education -- For Our Times Or
Against Them?" and a transcript is available in the "articles" (green
button) section on the PLANS site: www.waldorfcritics.org).
I will continue quoting from your article and responding over the next few
days. Hopefully you will become clearer about the controversy surrounding
Waldorf Schools and you will be able to present PRWS in a more honest and
forthright way.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 10:12:56 -0700
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Re: Children and Spiritual Questing -
) Sharon: Continuing to quote from the Calyx adding my two cents, Volume 23,
) Issue 2 Winter 2001-2002.
Great rant! Did you send it to the Calyx?
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 11:02:49 -0700
From: Dan Dugan (dan dandugan.com)
Subject: Re: a-s: The back beat in popular music
I'm usually quiet over on anthropos-science, but I couldn't resist
chiming in on this one:
-Dan Dugan
*** (posting by Dan to anthropos-science)
Gerry Palo, you wrote,
)I believe the back beat began to appear in pop music some time in the late
)fifties and early sixties, and now it is almost universal, alongside other
)complex beat patterns. Even "normal" tune songs are accompanied by a back
)beat rhythm.
Right. Here's a more accurate transcription:
"Rock and roll music
Any old way you choose it
It's got a back beat, you can't lose it
Any old time you use it
It's gotta be rock and roll music
If you wanna dance with me
If you wanna dance with me"
GERRY PALO
)I have this private theory that the back beat is an insiduous development in
)music, having a kind of jarring anti-musical effect on the soul of the
)listener, but one that becomes addictive. It is as if it wants to do battle
)with the natural rhythmical gestures of the human being. Instead of being
)an exceptional device, it has become all pervasive, even in normal "tuneful"
)songs, such as country and western music.
DAN DUGAN
I think the key word is "dance," Jerry. The back beat emphasizes
syncopated motion, springing up after coming down on the beat. It's
energizing. Yes, much of the world has fallen in love with that
energy since the 50s. You're certainly not the first to call rock
music an evil influence, but you might look around to see who's
keeping you company.
I had an amusing experience with beats once. I went to an evangelical
Christian summer camp with my two sons who practiced that religion.
At an evening community sing, the Christians consistently clapped
-on- the beat, even for gospel songs to which no one remotely hip
would clap on the beat.
I'd suggest that Anthroposophists ought to clap on the beat, too. It
goes with the humorlessness of the fundamentalist.
Regarding the "natural rhythmical gestures of the human being," I
detect the aroma of spiritually-justified eurocentrism, maybe even
racism. The back beat comes from Afro-Cuban dance music. My
understanding is that Africans believe that their dance moves come
from the gods. Maybe you ought to take up with them what is "natural."
What I find interesting in U.S. pop music recently is the popularity
of beat patterns of Arabic origin. Madonna did a lot to popularize
the Middle-Eastern shuffle rhythms. The back beat is still there, but
now it's a jewel topping a constellation of minor beats. An evolution
toward refinement, one could even say delicacy.
-Dan Dugan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 20:26:06 -0700
From: mysplum (mysplum earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Children and Spiritual Questing -
on 8/10/02 10:12 AM, Dan Dugan at dan dandugan.com wrote:
)) Sharon: Continuing to quote from the Calyx adding my two cents, Volume 23,
)) Issue 2 Winter 2001-2002.
)
) Great rant! Did you send it to the Calyx?
Sharon: When I'm finished quoting her article and responding I will send it
to the Calyx. The best is yet to come (G)...here's a sneak preview: "What
draws many people to Waldorf education is the deep spiritual foundation that
encourages us to put aside any dogmatic beliefs we have about the spiritual
world and come to a new study of the spiritual world based on a 20th century
scientific outlook".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 18:03:51 -0700
From: walden (awaldenpond shaw.ca)
Subject: Re: Children and Spiritual Questing -
) Sharon:
When I'm finished quoting her article and responding I will send it
) to the Calyx. The best is yet to come (G)...here's a sneak preview: "What
) draws many people to Waldorf education is the deep spiritual foundation
that
) encourages us to put aside any dogmatic beliefs we have about the
spiritual
) world and come to a new study of the spiritual world based on a 20th
century
) scientific outlook".
"...new study of the spiritual world based on a 20th century
scientific outlook". Twentieth Century?! This must be a typo - or does
it have something to do with the modern "America Work" Joel Wendt (past list
member and Anthro scholar) writes about - which I believe has to do with the
necessity of genocide involving First Nations in America. This *work* would
involve the 20th century though I don't understand where it might have a
scientific outlook. Too bad Mr. Wendt left so many questions unanswered
when he disappeared from the list. Perhaps the author of this piece in the
Calyx would care to elaborate? It's all mystery.
-Walden
(still striving to understand)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 21:36:18 -0400
From: "Diana Winters" (diana.winters worldnet.att.net)
Subject: Re: a-s: The back beat in popular music
Oh my God, this is priceless, Dan.
.
)Right. Here's a more accurate transcription:
)"Rock and roll music
)Any old way you choose it
)It's got a back beat, you can't lose it
)Any old time you use it
)It's gotta be rock and roll music
)If you wanna dance with me
)If you wanna dance with me"
)GERRY PALO
)I have this private theory that the back beat is an insiduous development
)in music, having a kind of jarring anti-musical effect on the soul of the
)listener, but one that becomes addictive. It is as i